Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)

We will make savings by a number of methods. First, we will introduce greatly enhanced control measures. I know "Prime Time" came up with the ridiculous figure of €2 billion that could be made in that way. I wish it were true but I do not believe it is. However, there is money to be saved by extra control measures. For example, we will be introducing the public services card next year. Other developments have taken place in the last year, some of which are subject to the enactment of the Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, which is before the Dáil at present and some of which are subject to the Bill that came before the Dáil earlier this year. They will give us savings in control measures. A more modest saving than suggested by "Prime Time" would be possible. The Opposition tell me €200 million is a small figure. If that amount could be saved by my Department it would be a significant contribution to the €600 million that must be saved in 2012.

The second method of saving will be to reduce unemployment. That is very important and it is why so much of the plan has to do with competitiveness. The figures are simple. Everyone who no longer claims jobseeker's allowance or jobseeker's benefit saves the Department an average of €12,000 per year in direct expenditure. If 10,000 people were removed from the live register, there would be a saving of €120 million. A reduction of 20,000 on the live register would yield a saving of €240 million. If one added to this the PRSI and tax that would be paid, the figure would increase to €400 million, as I am told constantly by the Opposition. Therefore, when one considers the figure of €600 million, one will see there is another way.

The third point concerns a much more aggressive national employment action programme. A national employment action programme will be beefed up next year. Many more people will be called for interviews and we will increase the number of places on a number of schemes. I will implement the provisions of the Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2010. Therefore, those who do not interact with the national employment action plan, either in terms of obtaining a job or training, will be subject to the penalties listed in the Bill, which will allow us to reduce the rate received by those who do not turn up for interview.

Statistics recently provided to me by my Department show that 8% of people called under the national employment action programme did not attend for interview and continued to claim payments. That is intolerable. If one who is unemployed and actively seeking work is invited to an interview to try to help one get a job, the least one should do is turn up. We must stop codding ourselves in this regard and must not tolerate circumstances in which no sanction is taken against those who fail to turn up. In fairness to Fine Gael, it supports my approach. It is only if all these actions do not result in the required saving that rate reductions should become a reality.

I mentioned a figure of €600 million for the budget of 2012. It is clear that significant savings can be made by being proactive. I intend being proactive on these issues for as long as I am in the Department. If one saved €500 million of the €600 million, the rate reduction one would need to make up the balance would be in the order €1.10. Therefore, there is a massive onus on us to ensure that we stop paying social welfare payments to those who are not entitled to them. We must send a message out collectively that cheating social welfare now is putting one's hand in the pocket of the old, disabled and unemployed. This can no longer be tolerated in our society. The old approach of nodding and winking in respect of people signing on and of people with very respectable backgrounds paying such people in the knowledge that they are signing on, must now come to an end.

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