Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)

It should never be forgotten that people who paid contributions - regardless of whether these relate to sickness benefits, pensions or whatever - during their working lives were obliged to make huge sacrifices in order to pay them. They often raised large families and sometimes found themselves on the bread line, but they survived. When they had finished paying their contributions, they supported their sons and daughters who could not raise the deposit necessary to allow them to purchase houses. The houses that were then bought are now in negative equity and they must try to assist their sons and daughters once again. It is unfortunate to suggest to them that some of them might be wealthy and perhaps we might find ways or means of screwing something out of them once again. It would be unfortunate at any time and it is particularly so at this time.

I note that the State pension is the new name given to the old age pension. The term State pension suggests that the State is paying for it but in fact the contributors themselves paid for it. All that money over their working lives was invested in various funds, such as the social insurance fund, the welfare fund, the pensions fund, etc., and it now should be coming to fruition for them, and we are not so sure about that.

In conclusion, I would say the following to those who now must rely on a payment. Incidentally, Deputy O'Rourke is obviously a very experienced politician and I must compliment her on this. The simple fact of the matter is that when one meets the people face to face in their particular circumstances and they tell you what their circumstances are, it is very easy for those who condemn the unemployed, and state they are being paid too much, those pensions are being paid too much and those who made contributions on sick benefit of one kind or another are being paid too much, to state that they should not be getting that because if they were not getting that much they themselves would feel a little bit better. That is the way society always was. Read about the 1930s. That is what people felt then as well. John Steinbeck wrote eloquently about it at the time and I would recommend it as reading to every Member of this House.

I hope that we have the resolve, determination and strength to come through what lies ahead of us. I hope we do not take it out on the vulnerable in society, own up to what we are going to do and tell the people honestly before, during and after election campaigns. If we do that, we will be doing ourselves a great justice and the nation a great and fair service as well.

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