Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)

I thank the Chair. The interruption is not a problem. I speak of our absent friends. I do not know whether we are toasting them but let us note the absent friends.

I do not know of an economy which has been deflated back to recovery. This is a fundamental issue and there must be a debate about it. The Irish Labour Party has made a proposal, modelled on what Germany did after the Second World War before the KFW, about which the Minister spoke, invested in derivatives. There was a derogatory comment about that particular KFW banking group. Given that we are all trying to get the country out of this situation it is better to recognise that the model of strategic investment bank in Germany after the war provided for investment in infrastructure and funding for small and medium businesses. We need the same in Ireland, particularly for innovation and for tax sectors that are taking off.

It is almost impossible for the Government to negotiate a deal given its political position. However, even though we are in terrible difficulties, it is really important to get a deal that will enable Ireland to grow and recover. That way we can pay the astonishing debts from the banks that have sunk us and we can give hope to the people that the country can and will recover.

We have a very short period in which to debate this resolution and it is very important that the Minister should explain where exactly these negotiations stand and whether they are simply technical negotiations, the kind in which the Doctors No in the Department of Finance deal. They have only two words; they say "No" to any expenditure and "Yes" to any cut. That is the mindset of the Department of Finance but it is a technical mindset. Perhaps that is what finance officials do, like secret policemen in every country in the world. However, the job of politicians is to use the technical information to bring from difficult circumstances something that will give the people in the country hope and the expectation of growth.

The extraordinary thing is that currently Irish people are saving. They have savings in excess of €88 billion as they save and pay down their debts. Some imagination would provide a mechanism to use some of those savings in a safe way in this country. Most Irish people want to save and invest in their own country. Very few want to be tax exiles. Most of us live and work here, our children are here, our football teams are here - or most of them are and, if not, they are only a short distance away.

We need imaginative ways in which to proceed. If these negotiations are simply and solely led in a kind of technical bookkeeping exercise by people in the Department of Finance and not by politicians of some vision and courage, then Ireland will get a rotten deal and we will pay high interest rates for short-term money over three years. The Minister suggested a figure of €80 billion to €90 billion but I have shown that we may need much more in the contingency fund.

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