Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)

I listened to the previous speakers. I am sorry I do not agree with my colleague, Deputy Broughan, who gave a very impassioned speech and warmed to the subject. We agree on many things but I would be more inclined to agree with Deputy Tuffy. This Bill is a sham and a distraction brought into the House at this time to distract people from other issues and direct them to something which they can say is wonderful and could be good for the country. It is another tier of administration and expense for the poor unfortunate people of the country at a time when they cannot afford extra costs.

Since I came into the House every reform I have seen has resulted in less of what was wanted by the people or desirable. For example, the City and County Management Act and the Local Government Act were the relevant Acts, but lo and behold we began to say they were no longer relevant and fit for purpose and would have to be changed. The better local government initiative was introduced by a Minister on the other side of the House who is still here. It became an appalling disaster and excuse for democracy and accountability and means absolutely nothing.

Members of the Oireachtas are virtually barred from having any meaningful dialogue with officials in local authorities despite the fact that two Ministers gave firm undertakings in this House that there would be no change, exclusion and lack of accountability. There has been an appalling abdication of responsibilities and an attempt is being made to do nothing other than pretend something new is coming down the tracks which is beneficial to the people.

Deputy Tuffy referred to centralisation and she was absolutely right. The whole idea nowadays is to centralise everything and have power in the hands of one person who of course has to be an expert and will call on other experts. The attitude of some people seems to be: "To hell with that old thing called democracy; it does not make any difference any more. What you need is a real hitman that will do the job in the way that it should have been done." They are wrong, have been proved wrong many times in the past and will be proved wrong again.

Other speakers mentioned the cost of the current administration. I have examined the Bill and listened to the proposals. There is an amazing dearth of Green Party Members, who are the natural fathers of this Bill, in the House. I cannot understand it. I mean no disrespect to the Minister of State; he would not have put forward the proposal. I thought the Green Party would be represented in the House for the duration of the debate since the Bill comes from its stable.

I wonder how waste management and disposal would operate in the new mayoralty which would have control over the whole region. Would it be the case that one could not have waste disposal procedures within the new territory of the mayoralty? I presume it would be the same as the current proposals. I am not in favour of incineration, however it is remarkable that it is totally barred in the city but there is nothing wrong with it being transported to country to us poor rural folk and dealt with it in environmentally sensitive areas such as the Bog of Allen. It is a crazy idea.

Incineration has the greater potential to do irreversible environmental damage. That is an important question. What is the current position? Will it be the same or will the sponsoring Minister say we will take responsibility for this ourselves and look after our own from here on? Will we be open and decide that we will treat all of the people equally?

It is true that modernisation of legislation is required from time to time. Like Deputy Tuffy, I would be of the opinion that a lot of improvements need to be carried out on so-called better local government legislation. We need to go back to the old ways. I listened to a group of experts recently at a meeting in Brussels which a senior major player on the scene addressed. The heavy hitters in the worlds of business, academic, journalism and high finance were all there. The conclusion was that the whole economic crisis which has befallen the globe came about because the old ways did not work and new ways had to be found. Some of the new ways they suggested smacked of old ways which had failed dramatically in the past.

For example, they said that people had lost confidence in the political system. It is a dangerous comment which one should always think about. What happens when the people lost confidence in the political system in the past? We had a serious war. A man decided to respond to the meeting and said: "Messieurs, you are all wrong. There were ways that were true and tried and tested but they are ignored and you introduced new methodology that failed, only now you know." It was interesting. Let us be very careful about what we do about this Bill.

This legislation has the potential to put another huge burden on the backs of the people in the city of Dublin and the local authorities which are already in existence and become powerful, unwieldy, unwilling to change or unwilling to bow to anybody's democratic view. It is a very serious mistake, in particular at this moment in time, to introduce a Bill on the basis that it will reform or improve the existing system because it will not. That is not its intention.

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