Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)

I am so sad for the Government frontbenchers, backbenchers and Members in general because they seem to have been injected with some kind of delusionary serum that is causing them to ignore all the factors that stare them in the face. They seem to have failed for the past three years to take any action that other governments in other jurisdictions took and got information quickly.

We hear much at the moment about expert advice. The Taoiseach, the former Taoiseach and various Government backbenchers have quoted expert advice from various quarters. The job of Government is not to follow expert advice but to question the advice, determine the basis on which it was reached and thereafter come to a conclusion, otherwise known as a judgment call. Having listened to and seen the expert advice, Government is supposed to act having regard to it, but not necessarily following slavishly in the same direction.

It is obvious to all and sundry in this country and outside it now that information available to the Minister, the Taoiseach and the Government in general at the inception of the economic downturn should have been made available within 24 hours. In any other country in the world that could be done, but for some reason it was not available here. The information that should have been readily available from the lending institutions was not available. Why did the information on the full extent of indebtedness not emerge? As the information that was made available then was insufficient, inadequate or unsoundly based, no Opposition can now back the proposal because we do not know what the true information is. It has taken almost three years to get the information we have got, drip by drip, bit by bit. That is why the European institutions and our backers across Europe are concerned. They are worried because they know it took a long time to get the necessary information out of the institutions that are receiving protection.

The people will now need to carry the burden of responsibility for this lethargy that has affected Government and the financial institutions. There is no response coming back from the banking institutions despite all the guarantees and support. Those institutions are telling customers what they always told them, namely, that if they do not pay up the institutions will pursue them in the courts. I can state that with authority because I have been there in the past two years on numerous occasions and we are told the same thing all the time from the same financial institutions that have received these guarantees over the past two years. Those same financial institutions have formed an abyss into which the various supports are now being poured. It is no wonder our European backers are asking where that money is going and whether we have found the bottom of that pit yet. It would appear that we do not know. The European institutions are taking a wise decision now by asking questions.

I was looking at a list of questions that were disallowed in this House - for very good reasons I am sure, a Cheann Comhairle. However, the culture that has affected and afflicted this House in the past five or six years is now one of the causes of the serious problems we face. In other words nobody wants to answer a question directly or take responsibility. The same has applied to this crisis; nobody wishes to own up and take responsibility in respect of action other than the ever-unfortunate taxpayer. The innocent victims are the taxpayers, those who are born and those who are not yet born, those who have worked and have contributed to the economy over their working lives and are now being asked to pay once again. Nobody knows to what extent they will need to pay. So there are serious questions about the credibility of what we are running here.

Germany is often singled out as a country that seems to be dictating the pace. In 1991 the German people took on enormous extra responsibilities for which they had to pay a price as they knew and they made those sacrifices. While it is true that interest rates were low not just in Europe, but across the globe, the German people took full advantage of that situation to reunite their country and rebuild its economy, and they came out of it with flying colours. By the same token each other European country had the same opportunity and had the ability to avail of the same low interest rates, but they did not always put it to productive use. The criticism has been that because of the inability of each individual member state to dictate its own interest rates, it was impossible to control the situation, which is absolutely wrong. It was within the ambit of each member state to exercise that control by way of credit controls and restrictions - the same kinds of restrictions that apply today. There is no good in various commentators saying that if only we had been outside the eurozone we would have survived, which is absolute rubbish. It is about time we confronted ourselves and recognised that. We can count ourselves very lucky at present. If we were not within the eurozone, I wonder where we would be.

The critical issue now will be the terms of the next support package. Given what the European institutions have already indicated to those of us who went there over the past month or six weeks to get information and the comments of Commissioners who came here to seek information, the situation is quite clear. The issue facing the Irish Government and people is how much any rescue plan will cost in interest. The interest rate to be applied is the critical issue.

Everybody knows there was a worldwide recession but we still have Ireland's recession, which was created by ourselves in pursuing recklessness and stupidity. We are told officials and technicians are conducting the negotiations, with Ministers conducting them from time to time. I honestly do not know who is conducting them but it is very important that recognition be given to a simple fact, namely, whenever a company, household, business or country is in financial difficulty, the rescue package that has a huge interest or penalty burden will not succeed. The danger is that there will be default. Should that occur, a worse situation will emerge.

Members of the House have often commented on the seriousness of the recession of the 1930s. Even President Roosevelt, who was no slouch in this business, repeatedly spent time addressing the issue, encouraging and cajoling people and sometimes threatening them, but at all times bringing the people with him. That is the next most important political issue. The serious issue affecting people in this country, and many people have been bashed, kicked about, scared and worried by the system, is the degree to which they can rely on authoritative support and leadership. Whether that emerges remains to be seen. I am not certain it will emerge from the Government side of the House. It is very important because otherwise the people are in danger of becoming totally depressed and worse things can happen in that type of situation.

I hope those involved in the negotiations know what they are doing. I hope they do not focus solely on one aspect of the situation or rely on spin. Spin has become the order of the day but substance and performance are what we seek now. The time for spin is gone; spin is for when one is losing and we have been losing for long enough. I hope the Government knows what it is doing now, although its performance to date has not shown that it does.

See this speech in context