John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)

I welcome the debate, although it is about three years too late. We seem to be rehashing what has gone on in the economy and what we are prepared to do in the forthcoming four-year plan. The only reason we are at this point is that the IMF, the European Central Bank and many others in Europe are now dictating the trend of play in Ireland and they, along with Germany, are demanding that we do this and enforce this austerity package in the budget if we are to get things right or be credible as a country. We need to focus on what we want as a country and as political parties.

I have listened carefully to this debate and while I was impressed by what people said, I question the commitment of political parties to enter into the type of reform that is necessary in the context of correcting the fiscal position from 2011-14. That is the real challenge with this House, namely, to connect the brains of the House to some sort of political backbone to make the decision. However, political backbone has been absent, not only in this debate but in the context of the decisions which have been taken up to now. People were confronted with this problem three years ago. It did not just happen today. It did not just happen with the banks. Prior to that was a huge downturn in terms of how business was being conducted, the volume of business and particularly the small and medium enterprise sector.

It down-sized, and got on with it, and what we did here, as a Government and an Opposition, was talk about it and did very little. The same thing is happening today. Sometime in 2009, Mr. Colm McCarthy delivered his report on what should be done and set out quite clearly that the game was up and we needed to have the reforms which were necessary to make this country get back to work again, create efficiencies and cost effectiveness and give value for money to the taxpayer. Nothing has happened

The Croke Park deal was signed and very little has happened in any Department. If we want to get real value for money and get people back to work we need to have a back office or public service which is the envy of Europe, that is efficient, that is streamlined and that is delivering on a daily basis for this country. That requires real public sector reform. I am not talking of doctors, nurses, gardaí or those on the front line because when I raised this question in 2008 the Labour Party jumped on it and said I was piling pressure on the lower paid in the civil and public sectors. That is not my position. I would protect those people.

However, I ask the middle and senior managers what they are doing to implement the Croke Park deal and from where the €1 billion in savings will come, because not one cent has been saved since the deal was signed. If we are to be real in this debate while protecting lower paid workers, with which I agree, we must recognise that the greater part of the deal is simply not workable or sustainable. It was agreed at a time when the economy was not facing the type of downtown or measures which we now propose to bring our fiscal position back into line. We need to consider it.

I was delighted to read today that the Minister for Finance is looking for a greater reform package in the public sector reform part of the Croke Park deal. If we do not get it immediately, as every other business is getting from its enterprise, then we will simply want more from the taxpayer. What is happening regarding the taxpayer? We are getting the Revenue Commissioners to collect taxes and squeeze everyone in terms of what they owe it, and we are then handing that money over to the soft centre which is spending it on what, having looked at the Committee of Public Accounts, are outrageous inefficiencies in the State.

There is poor value for money and it is giving this House a bad name in how we govern this country. We have to correct that or we are not correctly serving the people that we represent and we are not bringing in the reforms necessary to save the kind of money we want. We need to examine governance and ask ourselves what senior civil servants are doing. That little group, comprising 600, managed to exempt itself from the levies last year when push came to shove. That is not leadership. How much is it getting and is it giving value for money? What decisions is it taking? What management skills does it have? How is it pressing for reform? They are the questions we need to ask in what needs to be done in terms of the governance of the country. This is central to the recovery of Ireland. Such staff will be the drivers of the country regardless of what political party is in power. We have had umpteen reports stating 2,000 to 6,000 people are surplus to requirement in the management of the HSE. The report compiled by Colm McCarthy, who has done a service to the State, detailed the savings that can be made and nothing has happened. How much of that money could have been channelled to front line workers, patients or clients of the services to make things better for our citizens? They could have received much more than they got until now. This is about the Government implementing political policies agreed by the people, driven by the Secretaries General of every Department. If they are not up to the job then we should get somebody else. I have examined the recruitment of those people and I found that there are very few, if any, who have been taken directly into positions from the private sector. If one looks at the implementation body of the Croke Park deal one will find the taxpayer is not represented. I find that remiss, in terms of how we deal with the sector.

In terms of business, most speakers in this debate have said that the small business sector will take us out of the economic crisis we are in. It employed 800,000 people at one stage, a figure which has now dropped significantly. It has cut its costs to a minimum. The owners of small firms and businesses work 24 hours a day, seven days a week just to keep their doors open. The one cost which has not reduced is the cost of doing business here. Businesses are strangled with red tape and bureaucracy. The costs of local authority rates should be cut by 25% this year, which would certainly force efficiencies in the delivery of local government. Planning fees and charges should be examined to enable anyone who is willing to take a risk to get planning permission sorted out at real value.

The cost of doing business has not reduced in the State even though the reports from ISME and other national representative bodies of business state that the only cost which has not been touched has been the cost of local government and national Government. That, in a time of crisis, is nothing short of a disgrace. The Government could easily make the decision and make it happen. In terms of job creation we should look to nuclear energy and other forms of energy. I note the Minister, Deputy Gormley, dealt with Poolbeg. One talks about political correctness. He should have stood back from the issue. It was in his constituency. We should have examined the issue in the context of job creation and what could be done for Ireland but that did not happen.

My message is that it cannot be "business as usual". We have to take political decisions and risks in the context of those decisions. We can get advice but we need to follow it. We can look to county enterprise boards and Enterprise Ireland. I find it hard to stomach that the Government would say it is reviewing the role of county enterprise boards. I do not mind reviewing the efficiencies within the boards but it should pump money into county enterprise boards to improve local economies, give businesses that are in trouble a different focus and direction and be involved in mentoring. It need not necessarily involve a grant; it could involve financial assistance of some kind. Enterprise Ireland should be supported and put out into the markets of the world 24 hours a day, seven days a week with Government support, to ensure that people who are doing business abroad can do more to sustain the jobs which they are creating at home.

On NERA and the minimum wage, we need to examine the entire area. NERA is closing down small businesses up and down the country. It cannot cope with the red tape. I listened to Deputy Tuffy who said it would be better to work for nothing rather than be unemployed. I am not attacking the minimum wage; I am simply saying that there has to be an economic basis for the value we put on it in the context of where we currently stand as a country.

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