Beverley Flynn (Mayo, Fianna Fail)

I welcome this important legislation. I agree with my constituency colleague, Deputy Ring, about the concerns of elderly people living in isolated rural areas, particularly in County Mayo. As Deputy Kenneally earlier said, gangs are going around the countryside identifying elderly people in isolated rural areas as prime targets for burglaries. I have often been surprised at local meetings in my constituency at the number of elderly people who raise this as a serious issue. If one's nearest neighbour lives several miles away and one does not see active policing, one will feel frightened at any time during the day. This Bill will go some way in allaying these concerns.

The Padraig Nally case focused much media attention on this area. Mr. Nally, a constituent of mine from Cross in south Mayo whom I know personally, had several incidents on his farm in which his property was endangered and led him to become very anxious. Many in County Mayo and across the country were happy to see his manslaughter sentence overturned and Mr. Nally found not guilty. It is an insult to people to insist they must retreat in their own homes if there is an attack in it. It is preposterous that a burglar could come onto someone's property with the intent of doing criminal damage, sustain an injury and then sue the owner for damages. This is outrageous to ordinary decent people who watch these events unfold day in and day out on the news. This Bill addresses these concerns.

No legislation can take the place of extra vigilance on the part of neighbours and the Garda. Community policy must be re-examined because I have noticed, particularly in County Mayo, the decline of rural-based gardaí. When I have contacted local superintendents to find out if a garda was to be replaced, I have often been informed only when resources allow, leaving many communities without a Garda presence. The greatest deterrent to crime is to have greater Garda visibility. In the past such similar actions have been successful. While I commend the neighbourhood watch and community alert programmes and the Garda's older people strategy, there is no substitute for the policeman on the ground.

The Bill's four elements are justifiable use of force, no obligation to retreat in one's home, the castle doctrine, the extent of the dwelling and the prohibition of criminals suing under civil law for damages sustained while trespassing. The Law Reform Commission recommended legitimate defence should be divided into four key elements: a threshold requirement; the attack must be immediate; the use of defensive force must be necessary and that it must be proportionate to the unlawful attack.

I have been burgled in my home twice, once as a student when I was going in the front door and he out the back. At the time I was flippant feeling sorry he did not take the television which was on the blink. I was burgled again just before I had children which caused some upset. However, now being the mother of two young children, if I were burgled today, my feelings would be very different. The state of mind of a homeowner when he or she has to use force is critical. Did the person feel there was a serious threat to himself or herself, his or her family or property? Did he or she act reasonably when he or she used force?

One definition does not suit all scenarios in such cases as the experience of state of mind for a young person can be very different from that for an elderly person living alone. The definition provided by the Bill, that if the occupier honestly believes the trespasser is there to commit a crime and believes a reasonable level of force must be used in defence, even if it is lethal, is correct. We do not want this Bill to be seen as licence to kill. However, it must be borne in mind the occupier's individual circumstance and state of mind at the time of defence. The Minister has provided the right definition in the legislation.

I could see where the Law Reform Commission's recommendations were coming from and in the confines of this Chamber they seem reasonable. However, it may not seem perfectly reasonable to a vulnerable person in their home when there is a criminal on his or her property.

As a Deputy representing a rural constituency, I draw the attention of the Minister to the definition of what constitutes the dwelling in the Bill. We all understand the dwelling and curtilage in an urban setting and it is clear that where one comes into contact with a public place, it is not one's property. In rural communities, however, a person who lives on a farm might have a number of acres around their house. The land might be fenced off or have a hedge and a gate. Where is the boundary? Does it include the farm buildings? It is very important that we understand the intent of the Minister in this regard. There might be vast areas of ground around a house so we need a better understanding of what is meant by the curtilage around a house. That is particularly important.

Consider the time of day a burglar might enter a premises. If a people come onto one's property at midnight or two o'clock in the morning and they are only in the vicinity of the house but one is aware of their presence, it is a serious issue because they come to the property without the owner's permission. If they are uninvited, the chances are they are not on the property with the intention of doing one any good. If they are within the confines of one's house or half way up the drive way, is that enough to allow one to act with reasonable force if one feels there is a threat to one's property or the persons on that property? This must be nailed down a little further. I would appreciate if the Minister would clarify the issue.

In general, this Bill hits the right note. It tips the balance back in favour of the homeowner, which is critical. Many people feel that in the last number of years the law has been tipped in favour of the criminal and there is insufficient protection for the homeowner. That has been addressed in this Bill. It is a very welcome development. In Ireland, as elsewhere, one's home is one's castle and one has every right to do everything in one's power to protect oneself, one's family and one's property.

I commend the Bill to the House.

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