Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)

I thank Deputy Rabbitte for an informative and in-depth statement on Black Thursday. That was a day none of us with a fair number of years in this House will ever forget. It was a dark day for the people. While many of us knew and understood what was coming, many ordinary people believed some newspaper reports that the economy had turned the corner and there was some hope. Black Thursday, however, ensured that not just the next generation, but the following generation will pay for the Government's economic mismanagement.

I accept international factors played a part in the current economic crisis. It is plain, however, that much of what happened in this country was as a direct result of what happened in the Fianna Fáil Galway races tent between builders, bankers and former regulators. They were all in it together.

When one looks back at what was allowed happen in the past ten years, it did not make sense building 90,000 housing units a year for a population of 4.5 million. In the Cavan-Monaghan constituency I drew attention to how many units were built while no jobs were created. It never added up. At the time, we were told that, with the better roads, people could commute to work in Dublin. Special tax relief for house construction in the Shannon Basin, which covered part of my constituency up to Butlersbridge, allowed people to build houses simply because it was a tax benefit.

Unfortunately, few questioned what the outcome of such development would be. Those that did were told in no uncertain terms by the then Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, to go away and commit suicide. That is the background to this debate.

Fine Gael, at all times, has put the country first. Most Members will recall the Tallaght strategy when the country was on its knees. We put it first then. When the Taoiseach asked the Fine Gael leader, Deputy Kenny, to back the bank guarantee, he did so accepting the Taoiseach's word on the state of the banks. Unfortunately, we now know much more important and revealing information about the true state of the banks was not made available to Fine Gael then.

I recall during the BSE crisis sitting in the benches behind the then Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry, Ivan Yates. He was doing his damnedest to save this nation from a major disaster. All the Fianna Fáil Members could do was introduce a vote of no confidence in him, a man who had been working from seven in the morning to 12 at night and who had the support of the farming organisations which recognised the excellent job he was doing. I find it hard to take lectures from the Members opposite telling us it is our duty now to bend over backwards for this Government and blindly back its resolution to this economic crisis.

Fine Gael is committed to work with the Government to find out how bad the state of economy really is, but it has another thing coming to it if it thinks we will back it all the way in the decisions it will have to make. Fine Gael did not cause this problem. Over the past number of budgets, Deputy Richard Bruton warned much of this was coming but was ignored. His statement and that of our party leader, Deputy Kenny, on the different agreements were also ignored. Last but by no means least, when they put forward alternatives to the banking problem they were laughed at and told they did not understand what was happening. I can assure the House that they did understand what was happening. They put forward proposals that would have saved this nation billions of euro but instead we were walked into a situation where two banks that are absolutely useless to the future of this country, namely, Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide, were bailed out to the tune of at least €40 billion. Imagine what that money would have done for job creation and making sure people could return to work.

I am not saying Fine Gael's proposals would have got us out of the situation for nothing or that they would have saved €40 billion, but the creation of a bad bank and a good bank would have decreased the costs. We now know that NAMA will not be a profitable organisation and another €40 billion has possibly gone down the tubes. It will cost anywhere up to €100 billion to sort out the banking situation, which is equivalent to three years' worth of tax receipts. We have a major problem on our hands.

Only this week we have had the Minister, Deputy Gormley, and then, after quite a lot of indecision, the Taoiseach, begging Opposition parties to cover their backs for the mess they have created. Others advise that we should all work together in the national interest because they do not want to accept responsibility for their decisions. Working together is something of which we are proud, having done so in the past. We will not work together to give a blank cheque.

Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide are now defunct and it is only a matter of time before they are wound down. In my area, we also have the wind down of ACC, National Irish Bank and Halifax. The banks available to us to create jobs and retain regional trade are Bank of Ireland, AIB, Ulster Bank, Irish Permanent and one or two other smaller banks. It is absolutely essential that these banks are forced to give credit. They have been underwritten by the taxpayers of the State through Government decisions. Yet, people are experiencing difficulties in getting their needs looked after. I make no apology for saying that because I know it first hand.

Some of the banks are claiming they are giving loans to people but in many cases they are changing working capital or overdraft into longer term loans to help their banking structures. Small retail businesses are under pressure. Shops are closing which means that no rates will be paid to local authorities and there is a knock-on effect in terms of jobs being lost. We need to make finance available to the banks. Deputy Bruton's proposal would have provided money for such a purpose and guaranteed it could not be used to restructure banks.

If the Government is looking for consensus it must accept worthwhile proposals from the Opposition and not laugh at and ignore them. When one reads a story in a local newspaper about a man or a woman who has not paid a small debt and is heading to jail, one has to ask what has happened to the chairmen and chief executives of banks and institutions. How are they walking free and enjoying holidays in their homes abroad? What sort of law is there in this country? There is one law for the ordinary man or woman and a different one for those with white collars. This is one of the issues which is annoying a lot of people.

As I mentioned earlier, there is a real problem with people who are under pressure and suicide rates have increased. The road safety campaign has paid off significantly. We need to ensure those who are under pressure and suffering from depression have access to treatment and can get help because such services are currently being cut off.

My party leader, Deputy Kenny, and Deputies Bruton and Noonan are putting forward positive proposals to ensure this country can get back on its feet. The one issue above all else which we must address is job creation. Tomorrow I will attend a debate on job creation organised by Monaghan Chamber of Commerce. It is desperately trying to give hope; we are not giving hope to people. It is a disaster that as a result of our lack of banking structures young people are being forced to leave the country. If they are left outside the country long enough they will stay there. As taxpayers we have paid for their education and some other country will benefit. That is not good enough.

We not only need to deal with the banking crisis here but we need to put in place genuine structures to ensure people who want to take up employment in this country get the opportunity to do so. Only yesterday I became aware of a young person who was eligible for a job in a local community but it was found, through some technicality, that the person concerned was not claiming social welfare for a long enough period. In another case a person was too highly educated for a job. Where do we go? Every technicality is being used to stop people who want to work from doing so.

We need to take a two track approach to this issue. We need to get our banking structures correct but not at any cost. We need to ensure that the people who gambled with money in this country take responsibility for their actions. We have to deal with the matter fairly. We need to try to get some of those who are on social welfare today back into employment, especially young well-educated people who would be better off working for nothing in firms and allowed to claim social welfare rather than allowing them to rot on the side of the street. We need to come up with new thinking and a new approach to ensure young people do not suddenly become long-term unemployed and unemployable.

We have too much to offer in this country. There are opportunities. I know some firms that have the money are increasing output in manufacturing and other industries, which shows that if others that are less fortunate and not as well-established could get the finance they could do the same. The opportunities are there. One company beside my home is exporting to 55 countries and is keeping people in work, which is vital. I know of others who are struggling and who cannot get the money to finance new projects.

We have very well educated young people but we are not giving them hope or leadership. We are making out that this country has no hope for the future. I came through extremely difficult personal times during the 1980s. At that time, we paid 23% interest. Interest is still relatively low if people could only get the money to either stay in or increase their business. This would be one of the best ways forward.

I look with awe and fright at what is happening in my constituency with Quinn Direct and the Quinn Group. At this late stage, I beg the Government to ensure that every possible help is given to ensure these jobs are maintained in these areas. There are ways and means by which the Government can do this within the law and within the structures. The Government owns Anglo Irish Bank at present and Quinn Direct is involved in this, or at least its personnel are. It is not too late to come up with a solution to this issue. People have put forward with one which can guarantee the best of both worlds, whereby Quinn Group workers can be retained in the main and the taxpayer would not have to pay for the €2.8 billion of personal debt. I urge that every way be looked at to ensure that the best resolution is found.

It might be very easy to sell off the insurance company for €1 and state we have no more responsibility for it. However, we must remember that if this is done the chances of those jobs being retained in Cavan and surrounding counties are very small. It may also have implications for the greater Quinn Group structure. I do not contend that the Quinn family did not make major mistakes. However, when this situation is compared to that of Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide and what this is costing the Irish nation in tax then it has to be looked at and dealt with seriously.

I welcome this opportunity to speak on this matter. Fine Gael will work in a constructive way with the Government but it should not ask us to sign blank cheques. Too many of them have been signed in the past.

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