Mary O'Rourke (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)

All right.

I was a bit astounded at the alacrity with which this new model, the VEC community primary school, was being embraced, bearing in mind that we have had for a number of years - since the early 1980s with the Dalkey multi-denominational school - a very successful primary school model called Educate Together, which now numbers 57 primary schools. This is quite a huge number and they have made their way and, I am sure, have had huge debate about how they will position the teaching of religion. They have done so very well and against a background of pupils from all faiths and none. Wherever Educate Together has been established it has been applauded and followed and it is increasing enrolment numbers everywhere.

When the Minister spoke on the Bill this morning I would have thought a couple of sentences included in her speech would have pointed to the record of Educate Together in primary education and what it has done, and would have suggested looking at it. However, there was no such mention. It was as if it was being erased from the scene. That is not so. Educate Together is here and it is here to stay. I have kept up my contacts with Educate Together, with its very active CEO and with the directorate which runs its primary schools and I know it is in the running for very large post-primary schools in Gorey and Lucan, and I am sure in other places also.

I was quite amazed that there was no reference to the very successful and satisfactory model adopted by Educate Together. I would be glad if the Minister, when she sums up on Second Stage, refers to why Educate Together was obliterated from the spoken scene here today and way she did not make reference in any way - either in applause or disdain - to the very fine record of Educate Together. I am quite surprised that even if it had not been included she did not think herself to include it in the speech. Be that as it may, I want to put it on the record that I inaugurated and initiated several new primary Educate Together schools in a time of huge austerity, quite similar to what the Minister faces now, and my record in the Department of Education and Skills will show it. They have continued to operate to great advantage to their pupils and parents.

Deputy Quinn spoke about a lack of democratic accountability because the VEC community primary school will be removed from the remit of the VEC committee. I would not have any disagreement with this because there could be too much involvement of a committee in the running of primary school. The Educate Together model has huge parental involvement. Not only are they in the school, but they also run the financial remit and the curriculum. They are very heavily involved. I do not know whether the schools established by the Minister and three more to open will have that same type of democratic parental involvement, which is the hallmark of the earlier type of school of which I spoke.

I have nothing against the VECs; they were a very fine start up when we had no education in this country and they do fantastic work. I smiled when the Minister unveiled the amalgamation at our parliamentary party meeting last night. I could tell on the floor of the House the story I told the Minister some time ago: in my time there was no bord snip nua, only Mr. Haughey who was then, in administrative terms, an bord snip nua. I was told to reduce the number of VECs and I came up a plan not as ambitious as that of the Minister. I guess there is a Machiavellian element in what the Minister has proposed. She will tell an bord slip nua that she did better than it told her and that she is a very good girl to be patted on the back. Fair dues to her she came up with a very low number, much lower than I had anticipated all those years ago. I got my files together, the legislation was being prepared and everybody was saying well done and that it was a marvellous idea. Then, in 1989, there were local and European elections. They all importuned Mr. Haughey, who telephoned me one day to tell me to go slow on my proposal to amalgamate the VECs.

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