Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)

They do indeed.

Another issue I have examined with some cynicism is the degree to which experts attempt to suggest that the Members who are elected by the public are a crowd of idiots and that if the experts had been around those things would not have happened. I hasten to remind them that most of the problems we now have are as a result of people following expert opinion. As we all know the experts are available for consultation purposes. They are paid a fee. They are guns for hire. They will give virtually any expertise on the basis of the payment made. It depends what one asks for. The important thing we all need to know whether we are in Government, a Minister of State, or a Deputy is the basis for their conclusions. That is when they run into some difficulty.

I reject the notion that the cause of our problems has been the stupidity of the elected Members to the Houses of the National Parliament. Instead, I point to the number of times some of us had the temerity to raise those issues in the past ten years. We were told to clear off, that we did not know what we were talking about, that there were quicker and slicker ways and much more remunerative ways of doing it and that they would show us how. They did and now they know. I take no pleasure in the situation that is now emerging.

A large number of high-profile people in this country secretly lost their shirts and are very annoyed. I am sorry for them but they should not attempt to take it out on everyone else. They should not attempt to off-load the responsibility and guilt on everyone else. Suffice it to say that the more bitter they become, the more suspicious I become. They can continue along that road for as long as they like and the only result is that they will reap the whirlwind themselves. That is what history has taught us. We are all historians. We would not be here unless we had little knowledge of it.

The question is whether the people of this country will be able to pay back the €50 billion on the basis of the proposals put forward by the Government in recent days. My bet is that the answer is "No". There are more and better ways to achieve the same objective without the same broad-based, scorched earth approach. I do not see how it is possible to raise the €50 billion and the €18 billion that is required to bridge the current deficit, which may increase further if the economy contracts, and at the same time to generate growth and employment in the economy. It cannot be done.

We have now imposed on the country the equivalent of compound interest. It has been imposed on businesses and mortgage holders throughout the country who have fallen into arrears. We advise our constituents on a regular basis that there are a number of fundamentals. If one needs to work oneself out of a debt problem, such as many people in this country now face, the most important thing is to find out one's income and to calculate whether there is a possibility of working one's way through the debt over a period of time. If, in the event that one's income is insufficient - or in this case revenue - to do the job it is intended to do then one has to take other measures. One has to liquidate some of the assets. That is what we advise constituents to do. First, we approach the lending institution in question with an offer of a settlement. The alternative is to have compound interest applied. Every time an instalment is missed, it is multiplied and every three months the debt doubles. An extraordinary situation arises very quickly. Let us add to that the fact that this country is expected to borrow at the rate of 6.5%, which is approximately 4% higher than the other economies in Europe.

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