Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)

The state of banking has changed since I last spoke on this issue because we have been told that our growth rates will not be as predicted. The Minister for Finance and the Governor of the Central Bank continue to tell us our debts are manageable. However, while we can manage by cutting costs and making people suffer, the overall national debt will not go away. We can barely meet the cost of servicing our debt through cutbacks.

Today I listened with interest to the Taoiseach as he tried to separate banking debt from national debt. I am afraid to say that it is all debt. We do not have the luxury of treating them separately. Our overall national debt, including the bank bailout, is a black cloud which will hang over this country for a long time. The Taoiseach needs to cop on because the country will have to repay this debt at some point. I do not see any major plan from this Government for repaying it, however. It intends to manage the interest on the backs of everybody in this country but that is where it stops.

The cost of bailing out the banks is the reason for the increase in the interest rates we pay on our debt. The structural deficit in our budget is similar to that of other countries, many of which have plans in place to rebalance their finances, but this deficit can be fixed over time. The market is scared by our banking debt and this is why we are paying higher interest rates than the likes of Germany. I ask the Taoiseach to refrain from separating the two issues as if they are unrelated.

The Minister and the Government lacked the maturity to take on this crisis. This is why so many incorrect decisions were taken. The decisions to bail out Anglo Irish Bank and to tell the Dáil that it would not cost anything were terrible. Even a few months ago, we were told it would only cost €20 billion. These statements were misguided and wrong. Many journalists are now writing that the Minister, Deputy Brian Lenihan, is not the man everyone thought he was. This Government is not able to manage the crisis. It does not have the ability to negotiate with bondholders. We are led to believe it was conned by the bankers but it may in fact have been aware of what was going on. The Government's lack of ability means our problems will continue unless it resigns to allow new parties which have the answers to take over. We have clear minds and consciences because we did not cause the crisis.

When NAMA was first announced, the Minister stated it would get money flowing to businesses but it has not and will not solve the problem of credit. Small and medium enterprises are suffering. Every day I walk down the streets of Navan, Trim, Enfield or Oldfield, I see another closure. These closures are preventable because most of the businesses involved are viable. They may have to employ fewer staff or make slight adjustments but they can survive if they get help from the Government. Sadly, there is no plan to help small and medium enterprises. The three and four year old policies of the good times have not shifted. The situation is getting worse because of the lack of credit. NAMA has not fixed this problem.

Last week I addressed the need for a national recovery bank. Perhaps we no longer need to establish a new bank given that we own 92% of AIB but we need to provide money to small businesses. The Minister's great idea for NAMA is a disaster in terms of helping small businesses to get credit. Let us move on to a new plan for getting money flowing again.

Businesses would have the potential to access credit if they were given professional guidance and advice on redrawing their business plans. The UK has introduced health checks for businesses. The mentoring provided through enterprise boards cannot solve every problem. A lot of business people work very hard over 60 to 80 hour work weeks. They are very familiar with their businesses but they may not have had the time to get the financial training they need to continue.

We cannot continue to ignore the issue of personal debt. Addressing the issue will help people to remove the dark clouds over their own finances. I do not advocate writing off debts, rather we should help people to plan a way through their debts by, for example, paying off short-term debt over the longer term. By making personal debt more manageable, we will increase consumer spending and, in turn, create more jobs.

We cannot believe the Government's employment creation plans. The rehashed announcements of jobs solely pertain to international big businesses and do nothing for the small businesses who need to see an increase in domestic as well as international demand.

The Government should stop telling us everything is fine when it clearly is not. Ministers must admit they are wrong and agree to a change of direction. They should listen to this side of the House and put in place plans which will help to restore the country to its feet and pay off our debts.

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