Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)

Many of the Minister of State's colleagues are not in the real world or feel the pain of the people. The Minister for Finance spoke about how anger is anger and will not fix anything. People are angry because they believe the Government does not understand their pain. People whom we all think had money are now under serious pressure and attend social welfare offices and community welfare officers nearly every day. Many already know they will not have enough money for sufficient heating or food come Christmas time. They must believe the Government understands their pain and point them in a direction out of it.

They do not, however, buy into these bank plans. The Minister for Finance speaks of turning corners. If one takes four corners, one is back to where one started. We have turned so many corners now, most people think we are back to where we started. It is like the Minister is on a monopoly board, passing "Go" and picking up a few more billion euro each time. Those billions happen to be taxpayers' money, however. We are told the total cost for Anglo Irish Bank will be €34 billion which is more than a full year's tax take for this country. That is like all the hard work going down the drain for a year. It is so bad, people might as well have stayed at home for a year.

I hope the Minister will grasp this and speak to the people with some understanding and respect rather than in the way he treats this House with total contempt and arrogance; that whatever he says is right and how dare we question him.

I still have not got answers to the simple questions I asked at the beginning of this crisis. For example, how was it the former Financial Regulator, Mr. Neary, told an Oireachtas committee that the banks' exposure to debt was €39.4 billion, when it was announced a few months later in the April 2009 mini-budget that it was €90 billion? Those involved in all of this walked away with massive pay-outs and pensions. Today, when the Minister was asked about severance packages for those in AIB, he said it has nothing to do with him.

It has everything to do with the Minister. After today, we will own AIB. There must be some policy on severance packages rather than rewarding those who got us into this mess. The perception outside of this House is that those who created this mess will be rewarded while others will be punished for the smallest transgression. If this is not fixed, we will have serious problems. We are fortunate the people are not as rebellious as they are in other countries. If they were, we would not be able to raise the moneys on the bond markets. As I have said already, if the Government does not start treating people properly, there will be rebellion on the streets. It may even be worse than it is in other countries. There is only so much the people can take. It is time they were treated properly, told the truth and given a direction out of this crisis.

I welcome the idea of a four-year plan for tackling the banking problems. The people need to see this plan so they can make decisions. Many people have money saved. If we cannot give them the confidence to spend their savings, there will be more job losses in the wider economy. There is also a duty to give those who have lost their jobs hope and a direction. Last week's announcement of a job creation strategy was a rehash of other plans. It does not wash any more. Proper sectorial plans need to be set out showing the job creation potential of each sector. Such a four-year plan will only be credible if all parties are involved in it. If the Government wants to put forward such a plan that will be believed by the bond markets, it must have the backing of the House.

The Minister claimed today this brings closure to the process of determining the level of State support for the banking sector. It does not. There are still question marks over Anglo Irish Bank and NAMA. The sooner these are brought to a head the better.

The Minister also claimed that since the announcement of the banking guarantee, the State has been required to stand behind the domestic banking sector to safeguard the financial system and economy. It is time the banks stood behind the State and stopped treating business and personal customers shoddily. I get calls from business people who are being harassed and abused by bank staff looking for a few euro in loan repayments while their overdrafts of €15,000 are pulled. This is Mickey Mouse stuff compared to the billions of euro the banks owe. This will have to stop. Business people are doing their best to keep their businesses going and others employed. The banks need to work with people, not abuse them.

The Minister must consider a State-owned recovery bank to get more credit flowing by using some of the funds from the National Pensions Reserve Fund. Mr. John Trethowan, head of the credit review office, agreed with me at an Oireachtas committee on this proposal. The Minister stated he wants a banking system that is firmly focused on meeting the needs of the real economy. While we are waiting for the domestic banking sector to come around to this, there is a need for a national recovery bank. Billions of euro have been spent on bailing out the banks; it is time some billions were put into businesses to survive.

Now that we have come to the final figures for the bank bail out, is it possible to turn our attention to a job stimulus plan? The one announced during the week was a Mickey Mouse one which no one believes.

Some proposals for businesses are quite simple and would cost nothing such as giving them professional advice on how to draw up, say, business plans. Many small businesses will survive if they get assistance in financial management, legal affairs or employment law matters. Other countries stepped up to the mark two years ago to provide this assistance while we cut the funding to enterprise boards which provided such mentoring schemes.

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