Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)

Well, it has been untouchable up to now. I agree that it has been a circle of incompetence, but perhaps to describe these people as incompetent is to let them off the hook. Some would say they are particularly competent but have their eyes on something else - enriching themselves and their friends. Let us hope some of this will come out in the inquiry.

The bottom line is that if institutions are not co-operating with NAMA in the way they are expected to, why have prosecutions not arisen from this? It is bizarre in the extreme. A substantial in-depth investigation is needed. The major surprise for me was that Mr. Daly was surprised at all. I thought that having held a position in the most toxic bank of all, he would have had an insight into what was going on. Thus, it is quite telling that he says he is surprised at the level of deceit that had continued up to recently with regard to the extent of toxic loans.

The absence of specific and detailed figures, projections and so on leaves the business plan quite weak. The principle of long-term economic value is still being applied by NAMA, and we do not know where it will stop. One can calculate long-term economic value on the back of a cigarette packet and one's guess will be as good as anyone's. Why are we not talking about current market value when discussing these toxic loans? In that case we would all know what we were talking about. It certainly will not be the 50% of the total value that NAMA has been paying to date; it is more likely to be of the order of 20% or 25%. We know this from the Carroll High Court proceedings. The business plan mentions a worst-case scenario of a loss of €800 million, but I am concerned that it may go well beyond that.

If the Government's policy had been to create a State bank, the Minister and his colleagues at Cabinet would have had their hands on the levers of that bank. They could have appointed people with credibility - decent, honest people - to run the State bank and ensure that the Government knew exactly where it stood. Another major positive outcome would have been the safeguarding of credit for SMEs, which would have saved thousands of jobs across the land.

At the meeting of the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service, we discussed in private the work of the committee. In terms of expertise, we must make a difficult appointment. I accept that we in the committee need expert guidance, advice and briefing on a host of matters that will arise along the way. The selection of a person to do this is likely to be controversial, although I hope it is not. I hope that somebody with an international reputation, whether he or she is Irish or otherwise, can be found, because Sinn Féin is not looking for a squabble on this; we want to get through the business at hand and make a report as quickly and efficiently as we can. That is the objective of all parties in the committee.

The timing will be difficult; the Minister will be even more conscious than us of the budget coming down the line just a few weeks after the report is due to be completed. It is imperative that the report is done and dusted and discussed on the floor of this House well in advance of the budget, because we all know that will be a major challenge for the Government and, even more so, for those who will be at the sharp end of it. It appears that this will again be a slash-and-burn budget, with more cutbacks, even though it does not need to be. There are other options. I am not talking about borrowing but about raising money in a fair and equitable way. The Minister knows better than I the extent of the wealth that has been out there since long before the Celtic tiger. There is still substantial wealth in the State and there are people who could afford to pay a wealth tax. This would yield more than €1.5 billion; the minimum figure I am given by economists with regard to the yield from a 1% wealth tax is €1.6 billion. They are the people who are able to bear that burden.

The Minister said there were signs of life in the economy. I am afraid that if he were listening to the news he would probably describe the economy as still critically ill. We need to find a way to stimulate the economy to create jobs.

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