Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)

The agreement has been made and it is for all of us to proceed with its implementation and the wider transformation of public services agenda. There is an acknowledgement from everybody that the status quo will not enable us to maintain and develop public services based on the Exchequer arrangements. The moneys available are such that this must happen.

The purpose of much of this work is to the greatest extent possible maintain public services on the front line. The embargo is not rigid in that respect and there are arrangements for front-line services in various sectors. They must be applied for and positions cannot be filled automatically.

I made a point yesterday on intellectual disability services and using this or disability services in general as an example, we spend €1.2 billion on the area, with €900 million on intellectual disabilities and €300 million for physical and sensory disabilities. It is a considerable commitment to meet a need. There are many section 38 and section 39 organisations - so called under the relevant sections of the Health Acts - which deliver these services. If there are 178 agencies throughout the country providing those services and we try to maintain front-line services, we must consider those not on the front line and see what kind of initiatives will make for a more effective delivery of the service. One must consider how to join up separate payroll systems and services, as well as a range of areas that must be addressed in order to maintain front-line services. If we are not prepared to confront that agenda, we are indicating that as we do not have as much money as before, we will not be in a position to maintain services.

The front line should be and is the objective, although some support services are required because there cannot be consultants without secretaries. We all understand there are certain support frameworks necessary to make the front line work effectively. We have built up over a long period in our systems many areas that can be examined in the their process of delivery. We must consider the non-front line costs involved in maintaining such services and to what extent we can release some of those costs on the basis of rationalisation and better arrangements than those which exist currently. These are not easy issues to resolve but they must be considered in order to find solutions.

The Deputy asked a question on public service numbers in general.

The Government has confirmed that its policy on staff numbers in the public service is a matter which is independent of the draft public service agreement. However, the Government has clarified that the application of the moratorium on recruitment and promotion will be kept under review and will be revisited in each sector as staffing levels to be specified in the employment control framework for the sectors are achieved. That is the position in respect of that matter.

On the general point made by the Deputy, I am very much of the view that we must proceed with implementation of the agreement as it stands. I do not believe a question of our revisiting the agreement arises. We have only just obtained, through a process of consultation and balloting, an outcome in respect of this agreement and must now implement it. It is a challenging and ambitious agreement, one which provides for a series of changes which I believe most people would welcome and that are necessary in the context of the circumstances in which we find ourselves. On the issue of employment levels and so on, the agreed redeployment measures and flexibility in regard to rosters, which bring their own savings in terms of how and in what way people are working, will assist us in maintaining public services to the greatest extent possible. We will through redeployment be able to release people from work in one area to another where necessary. That is the situation as envisaged in the agreement. We must get on with implementing rather than revisiting the agreement.

In response to the previous questions in regard to the changes envisaged in respect of public service pensions, it was announced in budget 2010 that a new single public service pension scheme would be introduced for new entrants to the public service. The necessary legislation and scheme to put this in place will be introduced later this year. Deputies will be aware of the main provisions of the national pensions framework in this regard. Other details of the new scheme will be considered by the Government in finalising relevant legislation following consultation between the Department of Finance and public service employers and unions, which is now under way. The introduction of a new single pensions scheme will provide significant opportunities for administrative efficiencies to be introduced and will, in particular, allow for much greater centralisation of pension management and administration.

The Deputy also raised the issue of existing pensions. As I stated, the draft agreement provides that discussions on the pensions of existing public service pensioners and current public servants will take place in spring 2011 in the context of the review of pay. I have already clarified that the Minister for Finance is reviewing the current arrangements. In the prevailing circumstances, the Government has clarified that no change in the current arrangement for the indexation of pensions for current public service pensioners and serving public servants will be implemented during the period of the agreement. It has acknowledged that nothing in the draft agreement commits the union side to any position on the issues involved. The Government also accepts the dispute resolution provisions set out in the draft agreement do not apply to the proposed engagements on pensions in spring 2011. A separate process of engagement between the Department of Finance and trade union representatives is under way to discuss pension scheme arrangements for new public servants.

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