Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)

I cannot help thinking of the reasons Ms Justice Laffoy resigned from the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse and was replaced by Mr. Justice Ryan. She could not get information out of the Department of Education and Science even though this was a statutory commission of inquiry. She was so frustrated with the difficulties in getting the information she needed that she decided she needed to resign and she did this publicly. It is all very well to establish a culture with regard to the transfer of information but it is important that the language is very precise with regard to what is required. This is the reason I am looking for the word, "direction" rather than "guidelines" and I am looking for the power to be given to the Minister to specify the timing and manner and content of the furnishing of the information.

The phrase "as soon as possible" might sound reasonable to anybody in normal circumstances but it can also be an excuse for not furnishing information and saying it is not possible to furnish it within a certain timeframe. We need to word this section as tightly as possible to ensure that the information required is given, is handed to the Minister and subsequently to the independent review group. From experiences like the one I have cited with regard to the Laffoy commission, there is a danger that such a large organisation, and particularly in the area of child protection because of the shortage of social workers, is under all kinds of pressure to do all kinds of things and might decide it is not possible to provide this information all that quickly. It might decide these are only guidelines so therefore it will just provide a certain amount of information. It might consider these are only guidelines on what it needs to do rather than being statutory requirements.

We are framing legislation and this is not a case of just having a chat about what we think should be done with regard to this issue. We are framing statute law that will oblige certain things to happen. It is, therefore, important to get the language right, that it is as tight as possible and that there is no wriggle room or opportunity for any organisation to decide it cannot provide the information as quickly as it is needed by the Minister or that it can only provide certain items of information and not others.

This legislation deals with children and we are talking here about the deaths of children in care. We must ensure that the independent review group gets what it needs in a timely fashion and that the report is published in a timely fashion and is available to the public. We must ensure that in the future we can develop a system in which people can feel confident that the most vulnerable children in our society are genuinely in care when they are in the care of the State and that they are not subject to some of the scandalous things that have happened to some of the children that have been in the so-called care of the State. We must get the wording absolutely tight and right in this Bill.

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