Margaret Conlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)

I am thankful for the opportunity to contribute this evening and I welcome the presence of Deputy Ulick Burke. Having looked around me I thought for one awful minute I would speak without a member of the Opposition being here to benefit from my pearls of wisdom.

I commend the Minister on bringing forward a Bill that is fair. There is no doubt that we live in changed times, going from a period during the Celtic tiger when there was full employment, with people earning high wages and plentiful incomes to a position where more than 400,000 people are unemployed. The difficulty is that people's expectations changed during the Celtic tiger years and they did not foresee a day when this would happen.

The other difference to the period during the 1980s when we experienced a severe recession is that we have almost 2 million people still in work, an important fact people tend to overlook. It is very important that we say this to people at every available opportunity.

I know many people in the country who want to work; they want a reason to get up in the morning and to make a positive contribution to the economy. It is very important for their dignity and self-worth. We all love a holiday and it is lovely to have a few days off, especially if income is earned along with it. By the end of the holiday there is an itch to get back to work and make a positive contribution. We can imagine the opposite, which is to have nothing to do all day, every day, and having no income. Not alone is there no stimulation, dignity or self-worth from working but there is no income either.

The corollary is that no matter how many people work in this country, there will always be a level of unemployment. Even when the maximum number of people are working, there will be a level of unemployment. There are some people in this country who, through no fault of their own - they may have an illness, disability or other circumstances - are not in a position to work. That is regrettable but it is important to recognise such people deserve and need to be supported. This Government is committed to providing that support.

The other side of that, which I will say without fear or favour, is that some people, who we all know, have made a full-time occupation from claiming welfare. They have perfected the art and know every scheme of getting money; they are masters at it. What is more, they have never had and never will have any intention of working. Somebody said to me a number of years ago that such people would not work on batteries and I would be inclined to agree with that comment.

We cannot continue to support those people. Taxpayers in this country are providing money for those people and their actions must stop. I am not afraid or ashamed to say that or put it on record. There must be benefit reforms to ensure that work is always a much more attractive option. As a Government, we must do everything possible to provide support and incentives to those entering the labour force, or in some cases, who wish to avail of further education.

The people I meet in my constituency clinics are no different from the people Deputy Burke or other Opposition Members meet in theirs. The mantra we hear is jobs, jobs and more jobs. It must be our sole purpose to find meaningful work for people, and that is why the Taoiseach created this Department and gave the remit to the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ó Cuív.

I have always held the contention that if one believes something is right, it can be defended. I do not say something to be popular. I agree with the idea that if a person is on jobseeker's allowance or any other benefit and is offered an appropriate job or training but refuses it, the benefits should be reduced. Why should we pay a benefit from taxpayers' money if people refuse a job or turn down an educational opportunity? We must be clear on this because the Government must make every effort to encourage people to take up these opportunities; if people do not take them up they should suffer the consequences.

Unfortunately, we have all heard about FÁS in rather unflattering terms over the past number of months and years. I commend the many good people who work in FÁS, as their morale, self-worth and dignity has been severely damaged because of the actions of a few people. They are doing tremendous work and providing a tremendous service. I have met with these people, heard from them and dealt with them on a regular basis. They feel that the actions of a few people in this country have severely damaged the reputation of FÁS, which is regrettable.

These good people work at the coal face and their sole determination and motivation is to get people back to work or education and training. I make no apology for the person in FÁS who calls somebody in and asks him or her what he or she has done to get a job after a period receiving jobseeker's allowance. If a person has not made an effort and cannot demonstrate how he or she has sought work, the FÁS representative is entitled to take certain actions. In this country there has been a cycle and culture of dependency which must be broken. In breaking it, those people who need support and are most in need will be looked after.

Deputy Mattie McGrath spoke about the self-employed and many such people took significant risks during the Celtic tiger. They now find themselves with no income, no social welfare and no prospect of a job. From speaking to those people I know that if any of them got a telephone call from the FÁS office offering a job, they would be very happy to take it.

I welcome the Minister's decision to transfer the rural social scheme and the community services programme to his Department. These programmes have been invaluable in supporting communities the length and breadth of this country. They have addressed disadvantage and provided local opportunities in employment for people. This Department is their natural home. Without such schemes, much good work in our communities would not be done. Like others, I would advocate increasing the numbers on these schemes.

I commend the Minister and his predecessor, Deputy Mary Hanafin, on their commitment to anti-fraud measures. Any person who defrauds the social welfare system is ensuring that somebody in genuine need of assistance is not getting it. Such people put their hands into the pockets of taxpayers and take money from them. They must face the consequences and I am delighted to see that we have stepped up our efforts in that regard. We cannot tolerate the process as it stands and we must redouble our efforts to ensure such abuse is wiped out. It angers the honest and hard-working taxpayers, as well as others on welfare benefits who appreciate such contributions. That is correct.

I have much more to say but I must cut my contribution short. I welcome the Minister's decision to appoint people other than serving staff to appeal officer positions. There are significant backlogs causing major hardship for people. The methodology that appears to apply is that if one is not sure about a claim coming through the system, one should disallow it without first subjecting it to closer examination. Such claims end up in the appeals system and in the majority of cases, the appeal is granted. This gives rise to a logjam.

I am also of the opinion that there should be greater interaction among social welfare offices, community welfare officers and the Society of St. Vincent de Paul. In many towns, these entities operate independently of and do not communicate with each other. They possess valuable information which should be shared.

I have been approached by many people on disability who have been called to appear before the chief medical officer. Again, this gives rise to major levels of distress because people are of the view that they are not being given enough time to have their documentation reviewed. As a result, their claims are disallowed and they are then obliged to engage with what is a lengthy appeals process.

I make no apologies for raising the concerns that my constituents bring to my attention. I am a public representative. It is my duty to represent the people who elected me. The media can refer to this as parish pump politics but I will continue to engage in it. Not only am I a legislator, I am also a public representative and I must strike a balance between the two roles. I will continue with my work in both areas.

The Minister adopts a common-sense approach and listens to the views not only of Government backbenchers but also to those put forward by the Opposition. From my dealings with him when he was Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, I am aware that this is the way he operates. I am confident that he will continue to operate in this way in his new Department.

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