Charlie O'Connor (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)

I heard my colleague from Tipperary, Deputy Mattie McGrath, referring to Africa. I have visited that continent on a few occasions as a representative of AWEPA and as an interested person.

Deputy Breen and I were on a mission in March on the invitation of the AIDS organisation, IAVI, to visit Entebbe in Uganda and Nairobi in Kenya. One comes home from that type of trip with a different perspective on poverty and a greater understanding of the issues. That experience colours my view of this Bill which I welcome as an attempt to deal with those who take advantage of the law and of their community. On the other hand, it should not penalise those in genuine need.

I was stopped some time ago on the street by a person asking for money to buy a sandwich. After giving him whatever coins I had in my pocket, he looked at them and asked whether I was the local Deputy. When I confirmed that I was he asked if I did not have any notes. I sometimes find myself challenged when people approach me in this way because it is difficult to know whether one is doing good or bad by giving. I am always pleased to give but I have had plenty of experiences in the past of giving money to people only for them to go to the nearest pub.

I did not hear his interview on "Morning Ireland" this morning but I understand Fr. Peter McVerry, for whom I have great respect, made the simple but important point that there are different categories of people begging, including professional beggars, those who beg because their social welfare payment is delayed and they have no money and those who are homeless and will not go into a hostel because of the drug culture.

I hope the Garda and the civil authorities will implement this legislation in a common sense way. We must target the professional beggars who make a business out of begging and upset and intimidate people at ATMs and so on, but we must be careful that we do not stop giving to those who are fully deserving.

One of the organisations in which I am involved in my local constituency is the Tallaght Homeless Advice Unit where we try hard to look after those who find themselves homeless and in genuine need of support. It is often the case that those in greatest need are not the ones standing on the street begging, for all sorts of reasons. I was born in Dublin's inner city and I remember as a small child seeing people who had no choice but to beg. Their need was far more genuine than that of some of the people I see on the streets today. One must be careful in talking about these issues. At a meeting some weeks ago in Buswell's Hotel with fellow members of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly, the chairman of the group, a Conservative MP, told me that on a short walk in the vicinity of the hotel that Sunday afternoon he was surprised to be approached by 12 people begging. He was not convinced these people were not genuine. Nor am I and that is the basis of my view on the Bill.

Like other colleagues, I noted that in the case of Dillon v. the DPP, the High Court held that section 3 of the Vagrancy (Ireland) Act 1847 was unconstitutional due to its vagueness and lack of imprecision and that it interfered to too great an extent with the freedom to communicate which is encompassed by the freedom of expression guaranteed by the Constitution. My constituency colleague, Deputy Rabbitte, made an excellent contribution on this matter last night. I understand the general scheme of this Bill was approved by the Government in November 2008. It takes account of several suggestions made by the Irish Human Rights Commission, such as taking into account that some who are begging do not have a permanent address.

The Bill applies to both adults and children. However, it does not alter section 247 of the Children Act 2001 which makes it an offence to cause a child to beg or to procure or to have charge of a child for that purpose. I was born and bred in this city and I know all the streets very well. I am honoured to represent my constituency in the Dáil, which requires me to spend three days per week in the city. I would be just as happy to spend all my time in Tallaght but I take my parliamentary responsibilities seriously. Whenever I have an opportunity, depending on Dáil business, I like to ramble around the city streets to clear my head. One sees many people, including children, begging and it is a question of trying to judge whether they are in genuine need or are part of a business. That is the quandary.

The Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, is right to grasp the nettle. There have been suggestions that at a time when a great deal of legislation on many different issues is required, this should not be a priority. However, I support the Minister and am an admirer of his work in all justice matters. I would be delighted if he could persuade the Office of Public Works to build a new Garda station in Tallaght, but that is for another day. Every week the Minister makes a significant contribution in regard to law, public order and the entire criminal justice agenda. Although this is not a lengthy Bill, having only five sections, it contains important provisions. I am pleased it is receiving support from Members. I never object when colleagues across the floor attempt to dot the i's and cross the t's.

This is legislation that will be welcomed in communities throughout the State, by people who find themselves challenged at ATMs, going to church on Sundays, coming out of supermarkets and so on. I hope those charged with policing its provisions will do so in a common sense way. I look forward to supporting the Bill.

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