John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)

I welcome the opportunity to speak on Second Stage of this Bill. This short measure is designed to deal effectively with harassment and pressure on the public by persons engaged in begging. Many aspects of begging represent an unacceptable public nuisance. Begging can entail trespass, give rise to a general breach of the peace and threaten the maintenance of order. The unacceptable aspects of begging must be regulated and controlled by a specific and adequate law. The present gap in the legal powers available to the Garda must be closed. While it may be somewhat sad that we have to consider the measures set out in the Bill to curb this form of anti-social behaviour, the measures in the Bill are necessary and justified.

By any measure, Irish people are individually generous, caring and sympathetic to those in need. We are especially charitable in giving considerable financial resources to the Third World and the underprivileged. Such empathy and compassion is crucial to our sense of community and the maintenance of the social fabric. It is important that Irish people are especially generous in volunteering their time and energy to charitable bodies that work to help the deserving and the underprivileged. Now that we are in the middle of a massive economic downturn, the need for everyone to pull together is greater than ever. Many families are enduring uncertainly about their incomes and must adjust to lower income levels. Many others are fearful about the future. It is a very difficult time for many people. It is at a crisis time like this that the benefits of a strong family life and strong voluntary work show the strength of community. The empowerment of community and the voluntary sector must be further acclaimed. Citizens want a society that is compassionate, caring and supportive. In my experience, this time of difficulty is bringing out the best in local communities. Many still give generously to those in need and I acknowledge their generosity and giving of their financial resources and time.

One notable charity in this regard is the Society of St. Vincent de Paul. It helps fill the gaps in the income of many families in need in a dignified, compassionate and discreet way.

Most who give to charity prefer to do so on terms of their own choosing. We are perfectly entitled to decide at what time, in what circumstances and in what manner we will give support to worthwhile and charitable causes. We do not wish to be obstructed while we go about our ordinary everyday activities. Most certainly, we do not wish to be hustled and harassed with in-your-face type of demands into giving charity while we are going about our normal day-to-day activities.

There is a fine line between begging and those on the streets with alcohol or drug problems who have no family or social supports but who depend on people's generosity. An evaluation should be made of those with genuine needs who, through no fault of their own, are forced to beg. Categorising them as beggars needs to be examined in a different light as they should be considered more a social case. Many of those on the streets with alcohol problems have no other supports available to them and find it impossible to access medical services to help deal with their alcohol dependency. It is a real social problem that this legislation may need to consider differently.

I welcome the Bill's provisions that will end the practice of beggars obstructing access to and from business premises, being about a business premises, public amenity areas and openly begging for money and goods. For many involved in such practices, it is almost a professional activity.

The ending of unacceptable begging behaviour in the vicinity of business premises, cash points, parking meter payment points, retail outlets, restaurants, places of entertainment, tourism and sporting locations will have a positive effect.

Regrettably, there is some evidence that not all begging is closely linked to real need. For some it may be a lifestyle choice, while for others a means to supplement State-provided benefits and supports. There are some examples of what can only be described as professional begging. There is a clear danger that this particular form of begging will become associated with certain social or ethnic groups, leading to damage to the sense of community in the country.

The sensible use of the Bill's provisions will certainly help deal with this particular practice to everyone's long-term benefit. In the same way that the media and public education programmes of charitable and voluntary groups keep the need to help others in the public consciousness, the presence of beggars and begging reminds us in a practical way that there are people in need in society, that there is poverty and that there are people without the means to look after themselves.

The Charities Bill 2007, the legislation governing the start-up and running of charitable bodies, updated and strengthened existing legislation. One aspect of the Bill that merits particular attention in the context of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Bill is that public donations to registered charities are now subject to much better control than in the past. A greater proportion of funds raised will in future go to the direct provision of charitable activities and services.

Charity has become a large business with many costs and the benefit of tax exemptions for donors. It is important that all the accounts of a charity are open and subject to due diligence to show how the recipients have benefited. Furthermore, I suggest the percentage of the total gross take of a charity that should be allowed for administrative costs should be 20% with 80% going to the charity's cause, beneficiaries and recipients. If any administrative costs go over this percentage, questions must be asked immediately.

I encourage people to continue to give generously to registered charities as the best way to help the needy. This Dáil is preoccupied with introduction of new legislation but often it does not check their outturns. A strict assessment should be carried out on the effectiveness of the Charities Bill's provisions, its transposition, implementation and successful outcomes.

Regrettably, a good deal of legislation is enacted in Dáil Éireann but there is never any follow through to establish its effectiveness. The outturn should be checked in this case. There should be a report to the House on the success of the Charities Act, the level of compliance, the amount of money collected through it and the amount in the public domain. This should be carried out by the relevant controlling office.

I refer to the enforcement of the provisions of this Bill. I trust the Garda will see it as part of its humanitarian service to advise beggars of the official and voluntary supports and services available to the poor and needy as a practical alternative to begging activities. There is a difference between certain groups and we are aware a significant number of people have fallen on hard times. It can be very intimidating if one is at a low and people are constantly in the vicinity of pay machines. I prefer not to pass anyone on the street because one could be looking at anyone from one's own family.

It is important the relevant State supports are in place. The Department of Social Protection and other Departments which award benefits should provide information leaflets advising people of their entitlements. For example, such leaflets could advise people of a drop-in service where they could get lunch or overnight accommodation. People should be made aware of their entitlements in a friendly way. The Garda could make available a printed leaflet to apprise people of the alternatives rather than use the heavy hand of the law. If people were educated about the benefits and alternatives available and the supports available and encouraged to avail of them progress could be made.

There are certain people with alcohol addiction on the streets through no fault of their own. They should be given the support of the State and should not be turned away from accident and emergency departments. They should be given supports to deal with their addiction rather than pick up money for drugs or alcohol to feed the need of the habit on the street. If a person has an alcohol addiction it should be treated.

The Bill is very important but there is also a matter of rights and responsibilities as well on behalf of the State. It must ensure people at their most vulnerable time are helped and we must recognise the role of the voluntary sector, which does outstanding work. The charities in this country are outstanding. I refer to the recent earthquake tragedy. The generosity of the people is legendary and we could never be accused of not helping to address the need that arose.

There is a need for certain controls in regard to this Bill but also for a certain education. More important, the State should recognise the role of voluntary organisations in the community which give of their time. Their work, which does not necessarily involve fund-raising all the time, includes people giving of their time to encourage participation in sporting activities and encourage people to come into social halls for other activities.

There was 12 years of boom in the economy and people lost a sense of community. People in housing estates did not know their neighbours two or three doors down. This may change because of the new social charter. A sense of community is very important and education through schools is also very important. It is very important that the younger generation of children are educated. In the past ten or 12 years there was so much money everywhere that a three-tier society was created. It is important that as part of the education system, people are educated about the value of money and how to save it. Unfortunately, that has not emerged from homes. Every possible request was satisfied on demand. There is an obligation on all of us in this regard, but especially through schooling.

One of the most important issues concerns social obligation and responsibility to society. A certain level of anti-social behaviour stems from and eventually ends up in alcohol abuse and associated problems. There is a degree of anti-social behaviour from younger people in housing estates and this can create a sense of nuisance. I refer to the public order laws in this regard. Sometimes people can congregate outside supermarkets intimidating customers who come in. This can take place in hotels and elsewhere where there are people with nothing to do. Such people can intimidate not only from a begging point of view, but by going into a business establishment simply because it is in a particular location. It is important that a sense of obligation should be brought through the school network and the importance of respect should be imparted. This could help to address the issue of anti-social behaviour.

I do not consider begging to be a problem in rural areas or in the small towns of Ireland. I have seldom experienced the problem in the Sligo-Leitrim constituency. It is not what one could term a major, widespread problem but it is important that it should be regulated.

This debate opens up the nature of the social difficulties that exist and the sense of isolation for people who seem so helpless. Things must be very low for anyone to stand on a street or sit in a footpath to beg. The integrity of such a person should be borne in mind and such people may need a lift. Some very good charitable services are in operation and this is predominately an issue for large urban areas. I refer to the need for information, support, encouragement and dedicated personnel from the State to encourage people to use other means. The Society of St. Vincent de Paul should inform people that support is available.

I am very pleased to speak on this Bill. It is important legislation. There should be a sense of corporate responsibility. We witnessed the time of boom when there was a great deal of money. Unfortunately, the wealthy became wealthier and the poor did not. There is much talk of a recession at the moment but there is a cohort of people who never benefited from the boom and for whom its disappearance has made no difference to their lifestyle. I refer to the 80:20 principle. As we speak, there is a significant number of people on whom the recession has had no effect because there are so wealthy that it makes no difference. However, there are others including people in the poverty trap, on lower incomes, people who are under-privileged people, people who rear big families and single parent families. All such people are affected by the difficulties associated with poverty.

I refer to the need for a sense of community. I am a great believer in the voluntary community ethic. I started my political career working with a community based organisation involved in providing services to the community, including playgrounds, public amenities and job creation. There is a significant entitlement in this regard and the Government must attempt in every sense and at every opportunity to encourage community development. I refer to entrepreneurs in society who give of their time. A significant amount of people have been successful in recent years. They should be encouraged to help in some way. A sense of acknowledgement by the State is very important.

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