Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)

I thank all Members for their contributions to the debate over the course of the past day. I will bring them back to the contribution of the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, in which he put the context of the unprecedented budgetary and economic difficulties we are facing. We are giving leadership in facing these difficulties and this leadership is beginning to bring stability to our public finances.

The clear signs of success are beginning to show. Clear indications, independently verified, show that the economy will return to growth in the second half of this year, providing for a very sound platform for growth in 2011, forecast by the EU Commission to be in the region of 3%. This highlights that fact that we have one of the highest levels of growth forecast in the EU. Exchequer returns for the first four months of the year show stabilisation. In short, our economic and budgetary policies are beginning to bear fruit. It has been a very difficult process and it will be a long time before we can point to clear signs of success, particularly in the field of employment. However, the early signs are good.

The word "fairness" has been thrown around during the debate and everybody in the House of all ages would agree that in the current climate, politics must be fair and must be seen to be fair. We cannot provide the leadership required at present unless this is obvious. Members of the Oireachtas and Ministers cannot ask of others what they are unwilling to impose on themselves. In this context, as the Minister for Finance made clear last night, Members of the Government and of the Oireachtas have already taken very significant reductions in their pay and conditions as part of measures to reduce the cost of running government. These measures were in addition to other reductions through pension levies and tax increases. The number of Ministers of State was reduced, bringing further reductions in the administrative costs of government. The Government has shown leadership, as Deputy Naughten stated, and the reductions imposed in government pay and administration are without precedent among our European partners.

The House will accept that as part of a wide range of measures introduced by the Government to tackle the crisis, the pensions of former Ministers sitting in the Houses of the Oireachtas have been significantly reduced since the middle of last year and will cease to be paid to sitting Members after the next general election. Acting on the advice of the Attorney General, the Government took all the steps it could within the law to reduce the cost of ministerial pensions in the 2009 legislation. The advice of the Attorney General was that pensions could not be stopped completely but they could be reduced in a proportionate way after consultation. After the Minister for Finance carried out that consultation, a reduction of 25% was considered to be proportionate; this was done in the 2009 Act. The Attorney General indicated that it could be stopped in the next Dáil and this was also provided for in the 2009 Act.

It would be beneficial to expound a little on the advice of the Attorney General. In 2009, the Attorney General advised that pensions were earned but deferred income to which the person concerned has a property right. These pensions could not be removed entirely but they could be reduced in a proportionate way after consultation. More recently, the Attorney General advised that legislation to end pension payments completely for a particular group of people who have clear rights to that pension would be disproportionate and discriminatory and would therefore be unconstitutional, as is stated in our counter motion. At a time when there are no reductions in the State pension or in the pensions of public servants generally it would be constitutionally dubious to target a particular pension and abolish it completely.

In the circumstances, the Government went as far as any responsible administration could go within the law. There may be other views about what is legally possible but the Government must take account of the views of the Attorney General. A democratic government, operating within the law, faces a challenging task of ensuring that legislation complies with the requirements of Bunreacht na hÉireann. We do not have the luxury of ignoring the Bunreacht even if it were popular to do so.

As was pointed out, this will not be an issue in the next Dáil; the pension will simply not be paid. For the information of the House, there has also been significant reform of public service pensions; it will not affect Deputies Naughten or English but it will affect Deputy D'Arcy and me when we will be paid our pensions at the age of 68.

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