Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)

For most people, a pension is something earned during one's working life which one then draws down in retirement. One of the difficulties with the current debate is that ordinary people cannot understand how public representatives enjoy pensions when they have not even retired yet. I do not believe that attacks are being made on pensions for politicians, per se. Rather, members of the public are unhappy with the fact that those who are still serving politicians and whose salaries, when compared with those of ordinary workers, are significant are drawing down pensions. People see such behaviour as inappropriate.

This debate is taking place against the backdrop of horrendous economic difficulties. In such circumstances, people are willing to play their part in getting the country back on an even keel but only if everyone contributes his or her fair share. Burden-sharing must not only be fair, it must be seen to be fair. In a recent newspaper article, the commentator David McWilliams referred to Ireland as a country divided into insiders and outsiders, namely, an inner circle of well-connected people and the rest. He stated that insiders reap the profits when times are good and outsiders bear the brunt when times are bad.

An important aspect of this debate revolves around the fact that the lowest paid public servants have endured a 5% reduction in pay and pensioners lost their Christmas bonus. There are well over 400,000 people who are unemployed and a further 60,000 have emigrated in search of work. We were all previously of the opinion that this pattern had come to an end.

Every worker in the country is paying more tax and is aware that Fianna Fáil is busy planning the introduction of more charges, taxes and levies in order to pay for the economic ruin it has visited upon the country. While the outsiders - the vast majority of people in Ireland - are feeling the pain of recession, it appears there is a golden circle of insiders, the members of which are jealously guarding their privileges. Bank bosses complain about not being able to get by on a mere €500,000 per year, which is compensation for the service they believe they are doing the country. Even though we bailed out the banks, they are of the view that they are doing us a favour and not the other way around.

Mr. Fingleton, the former chief executive of Irish Nationwide Building Society, is holding on to his €1 million bonus for services rendered, namely, for losing more money in one year than the building society earned in profits during its entire existence. Property tycoons retain their trophy houses, golf club memberships, private jets and perma-tans. With the bankers and developers at the first two points, the toxic triangle is completed by Fianna Fáil politicians.

It was interesting to listen to Deputy McDaid's robust cry from the heart in defence of privilege. If we are all in this together, the burden of sacrifice must be seen to be borne equally. Even though it can be painful in the context of people's personal circumstances, changes in expectations, reductions in income, etc. Deputies and Ministers who set out to be leaders must show leadership and must not allow the burden of leadership and sacrifice to fall on the shoulders of the least well paid members of the public service.

The Minister's argument is that there is no legal remedy in respect of discontinuing these pensions. We were all present when the various emergency measures to reduce public service salaries were taken. The measures to which I refer were described as being in the interests of the public and as being necessary in the context of the economic emergency. A degree of difference applies in respect of judges and former office holders who retain large perks. The average industrial wage in this country is €35,000 or so. If that is doubled, one arrives at a figure of €70,000. It is inexplicable that people who are holding down well-paid jobs should also be paid pensions that are at, near or in excess of the amounts to which I refer. It would be difficult to convince ordinary citizens that this is appropriate.

A pension is part of a pay package. If one signs up and contributes to one's pension, one has a right to it. The concept of a pension is that it is designed to meet one's income needs when one is in retirement. Members on all sides would defend that concept. However, during the Celtic tiger years we lost the run of ourselves in more ways than one. In light of our current circumstances, it offends people's sense of fair play and economic justice to see those who previously held office as Deputies, Ministers or European Commissioners and who are now earning large salaries in the private sector also drawing down huge State pensions.

If someone becomes a Deputy at 30 years of age and holds his or her seat until he or she is 50, should arrangements be made in respect of his or her transition back into his or her former life? Of course such arrangements should be made. However, that is different from people drawing down pensions which are multiples of the average industrial wage and which are paid long before the normal retirement age.

Such is the situation that has developed in Greece that the European Union, the ECB and the money markets are going to require that for a very long period Ireland should be subjected to tough fiscal discipline while the economy is brought back onto an even keel. In that case, one must examine other areas in which the State has been over-generous and has over-provided, particularly to those who are not of pensionable age and who have other employments, salaries or emoluments. If one seeks highly significant salary sacrifices from an ordinary garda, nurse or teacher or from an executive officer or clerical officer in the Civil Service, those who have the honour of being leaders by virtue of being one of the 166 Members of the Dáil should not be perceived to retain benefits that are unfair when compared with those of others within Irish society. This is the net argument.

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