Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this Bill, which introduces a three-stage legislative programme to create a new fully integrated structure for financial regulation.

Since Good Friday, most public representatives from the Border area have been working on a cross-Border, cross-party and cross-community basis to try to save up to 5,000 jobs that are threatened on foot of the problems faced by QUINN Insurance. We have met the workers, the administrators, the Financial Regulator, the Governor of the Central Bank and the Minister for Finance. I remember being in the lovely office on the seventh floor of the Central Bank on the Tuesday following Easter Monday and noted there was a lovely view over Dublin. We sat around a lovely table and met Mr. Matthew Elderfield, Mr. Pat Honohan and others. It struck me that it was in that room, with its view over the city, that the former Financial Regulator and Governor of the Central Bank were asleep at the wheel. They must have felt great at one stage that we were building up a huge bubble and a head of steam. Everyone was clapping one another on the back saying "Well done" but the people who were paying the price were those people in the houses they could see in north Dublin city extending into Meath. Those residents are the people who are now paying the price for the lack of action. At the meeting, which I attended with colleagues from my party, Sinn Féin, Fianna Fáil and the Labour Party, I said to Mr. Elderfield and Mr. Honohan that it was a pity they were not in place five years ago. If they had been, the light-touch regulation would not have happened.

I have no doubt but that Mr. Neary and others were put into a position of trust and influence not because of their experience but because they had been in the Department of Finance for a long time. We all know what happened; over the years, it was a case of jobs for the boys. If one was in the Department of Finance, it was one's turn to be appointed to a certain position, regardless of one's ability. One deferred to a Government that was in office for 12 years and did not ask the hard questions. When one was put into a position of power, one did not bite the hand that fed one. If the Minister for Finance, who made the appointments, said, "Let it move on, do not worry about it", one accepted that. One knew who appointed one. One was appointed not on merit but perhaps because of political affiliations or, more important, because it was one's turn to be appointed. That is how everything has worked in this country since the foundation of the State.

Deputy Ring is correct that, since the foundation of the State, we had two laws in this country, one of which involved light-touch regulation, an Irish solution to an Irish problem. If there was child abuse, the offending priest was moved and one was told not to worry and that the problem would be sorted out. However, most of the people of the country who would have made a difference here were in Kilburn or Cricklewood in the United Kingdom or in New York working on the building sites. That is what happened because the brightest and the best were disgusted at the two-tier system in this country that we pretend we have got rid of. At least when the British were here they did things on merit. Any Irish navy person in the UK could confirm that he was never asked about where he came from, his political affiliations or his family. If he did the job right he earned respect.

Unfortunately people could not change the system in Ireland. How could they when they were resident in the UK, Germany, Australia or New York and could not come home to vote? That is why we had the culture we had over the years. Thankfully - while I might fall out with Matthew Elderfield, he is impartial - we now have two people in place who will make a difference. There is a difficulty in that we are trying hard to save jobs. This is all about jobs. We have very tight regulation now, and that is good, but we must look at how to save the jobs of 5,000 Quinn employees around the country.

This recession started with jobs and it will end with jobs. We saw the former chief executive of Irish Nationwide getting €1 million and the way people such as this can walk around as if they have done the country a service. Irish Nationwide and Anglo Irish Bank were there for a reason. If one went into Government Buildings and wanted a favour, a little phone call to Michael or Seanie and a walk around the corner to St. Stephen's Green and one was sorted out. That situation came about not from one's ability to pay but rather who one knew. Let us be honest about that.

If people intend to protest outside the Oireachtas, they should not waste their time outside Leinster House, because that is not where the power lies. The power is not with Opposition Deputies or Senators. The power is in Government Buildings and that is where they should go to protest. They could even forget about Government Buildings altogether and take a walk around the corner to Anglo Irish Bank, because those were the people running the country. They were running it from the Galway tent to include their little cronies and all those in a position of power around the country, and that has to stop.

If Fine Gael gets into Government I believe it will stop. I take my politics seriously. When I was elected to the county council in 1999 I was on the VEC. People used to ask me what politicians were doing on interview boards for teachers and so on. I did not believe they should be on interview boards, but the only time I saw political interference within the system was where two inspectors were putting in one of their own; it is a small country. Now we are back to the same situation where we have to go to the United Kingdom to bring in two regulators to regulate our affairs, because we simply cannot be trusted. We have lost the vocation of honesty and decency in doing the right thing.

I welcome what has happened as regards Anglo Irish Bank. I believe it was a rotten bank, as was Irish Nationwide and AIB to a lesser extent. These set a precedent in reckless lending that the other banks followed and there are people who were caught up in the frenzy. I am one of them. I was involved in business and we employed six or seven people. There was easier money to be made, seemingly, outside the core business if one invested in property, stocks or whatever, which everybody was doing apparently. I recall the IFA meeting Department officials in Dublin and talking about exporting and arguing that agriculture was the backbone of the country. In the event, they were told agriculture was dead and the place to be now was financial services.

We all fell into it because the people at the top decided that was the way to go, but it was too incestuous. Now we all know what financial services are and we have to start looking again at industries such as Seán Quinn's group which is selling insurance in the UK, providing jobs in Fermanagh, Cavan, Leitrim, Meath etc. We have to protect those people. We also have to protect Irish farmers. If economic effort is to be export led, we have a brilliant workforce, people whose lives have revolved around working 16 and 17 hours a day seven days a week, for whom there is now no margin. We now have to move to exporting and getting a return. Let us forget about the old bubble, selling houses to one another, and financial services. We have to return to core business. I have to consider setting up the business again, because there is now no such thing as an easy euro.

Bertie, Charlie McCreevy et alia espoused the view that there were easier ways to make a few euro and everyone fell for it because it was the thing to do. I heard about the "soft landing" a hundred times before the last election and then there was the former Taoiseach's absurd comment to the effect that anybody who questioned what was going on should commit suicide, effectively. It just showed how out of touch they were, but unfortunately Deputy Bertie Ahern will get his pension. He will still get paid but not so the people who followed his reckless leadership. We have 450,000 out of work, young people who cannot afford their mortgages and civil servants who, rightly, are very angry because they have been doing the work. They believe they have been undermined in what they have done as well.

Regarding Ministers' pensions, it is about time clarity, commonsense and cop-on came into the equation. How could one get a pension from a job while still working for the Government? This was absurd, but it just shows there was a gravy train and it was there for everyone. Then there was the episode of the 700 civil servants which showed there was one rule for one group of public sector workers and another for the rest. That is not the way to run a democracy. I am sure that most of the politicians who got those pensions did not know what was actually happening. Be assured, however, that the civil servants who drew up the legislation knew the score.

A Deputy's salary is aligned to that of a principal officer. A survey was done, presumably by principal officers, about three years ago, which asked how hard Deputies were working. I did not know about it, although we got a 5% or 6% increase. The survey said, in effect, that Deputies were working very hard, about 80 hours a week, doing this and that, and they got an increase. Those in Opposition did not know about it, but be assured Bertie knew about it. The Deputies got the increase, but so too did the principal officers because everyone was on the gravy train.

I believe there are people getting pensions for the jobs they did who are still working for the State, perhaps on a contract basis. This all has to be looked into, but thankfully the pressure was brought to bear on the former Ministers who were getting pensions and they at least have to give them up. That is right, it is leadership and it was what the public demanded.

The credit unions have kept businesses going around this country, because there is no money in the banks. The banks are not lending, despite their statements that they are open for business. The banks are not open for business, and have not been for two years. Jobs are going by the wayside. I want to pay tribute to the credit unions. They did not get caught up in the madness and now they are bailing out many people who need money to pay for mortgages or put food on the table. They were not supposed to, but they helped out businesses up to two years ago when things got tight. It is a voluntary service and the Financial Regulator should examine ways to enhance the credit union model around the country.

Let us think about the workers in AIB, Bank of Ireland and so on, who have gone through an extremely tough time. People come in, angry because they do not have money to pay to the banks, and they are on the front line. These are ordinary men and women. The banks gave them shares as a productivity incentive, but those shares are worth nothing. They have loans with the banks and they have wives, husbands and families. They are finding it difficult to survive. These people could not believe that those who took over Anglo Irish Bank received a pay increase. They are doing a job for the country - they should be happy to have jobs - and yet they got an increase a few weeks ago. There was anger not only among the public - as was right - but also among those working for the main banks, who felt that although they were doing the same job, those working for Anglo Irish Bank were protected by the Government. They had nice Civil Service jobs, and now they were to get a little bit extra for working hard.

We are in an emergency. It is not about working an extra hour or two in overtime. That is over. There are people in the private sector who are clinging on to their jobs. The days of people working an extra two hours for overtime pay are over. The country cannot afford to pay it. We must now wear the green jersey and get ourselves out of this mess.

We are where we are, as everyone says. AIB, Bank of Ireland and so on are in NAMA and we should support them. These banks need money and there is a lot of money out there. There are unions and industries that have money, and many people have deposit accounts. I am asking them to put their money into these banks so it can be put back into the Irish economy.

Ulster Bank, Rabobank, National Irish Bank and so on came here when times were good and are now pulling out of the country. They are folding up their tents and pulling out, and they are putting serious pressure on many struggling account holders. All they want to do is to pull out. National Irish Bank had seven banks out of eight and a 60% market share in my own rural area; it now has one bank, and next year it hopes to move to a cashless bank. It sees the Irish economy and it wants to get out. I ask people not to put their money in these banks. I have said this many times. People should not deposit their money in these banks as they will leave the country. They must wear the green jersey and put their money into the banks that are being supported by NAMA, whether I like it or not.

Businesses are under serious pressure and some will not survive. If we are to get out of this situation, it starts with jobs and it ends with jobs. I wish Matthew Elderfield and Patrick Honohan well. When they look out from the seventh floor of the Central Bank on a lovely evening such as this, they have a job to do. I ask them to consider what they can do to protect jobs. When a person is working, he or she can contribute to the State. Unfortunately, there are 450,000 people out there who have no means of contributing to the State, and the State is finding it difficult to support those people. One's heart goes out to them. I ask the Financial Regulator and the Governor of the Central Bank to temper what they are doing - that is, cleaning up the banking sector and ensuring the regulations are enacted - with efforts to protect jobs, although I realise they must be impartial. This is what we must do if we are to get out of the recession.

As I said, there were two countries before, but I would like to think there will be a united Ireland. I am not talking just about borders but about jobs. People should get jobs based on their ability and merit. The games that went on - the nods and winks, the favouring of those in the Galway tent, going around the corner to Seanie in St. Stephen's Green or up the canal to Michael - are over. This is where they have got us. Unfortunately, the people who participated in these things will not be arrested, despite the 450,000 or 1 million people who were caught up in the frenzy that was set up by this Government; rather, they will be protected. I would like to see a new Ireland that is open to all, without nods and winks, cliques or gombeenism. That is over.

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