Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)

I agree with that, and I am sorry the Acting Chairman thinks I might not have said that. In case the Acting Chairman or somebody else thinks I meant anything different I will clearly state what I said at the beginning. Every citizen, whether it be Seán FitzPatrick, the Acting Chairman, me or anybody else is entitled to make an application on any issue before the courts and it is entirely up to the judge to decide the outcome. If the judge agrees with the application the person has won their case and if he does not, they have lost.

If I am in financial difficulties and my creditors apply to the High Court to take possession of my home or to get a lien on my properties or my wealth, that is usually done in the courts in full public view and everybody, whether it be the press or a Member of the Oireachtas who might be sitting in the press gallery, can listen to the proceedings, which is good and proper.

If the application for an in camera hearing is made, equally, that is right and proper. I am not being critical of that but what I am saying clearly is that we need transparency and accountability regarding any deal done by Mr. FitzPatrick with his creditors, who would be Anglo Irish Bank, to which I believe he owes the princely sum of approximately €60 million and €70 million, which is a significant amount of money.

I asked the Taoiseach in this Chamber this morning, and I repeat now, to ensure we had full transparency and accountability regarding the terms and conditions of any deal reached with Seán FitzPatrick by Anglo Irish Bank and any other State related entity. I asked for that because I understand that any deal done, whether in camera or in public, must be signed off by the Government and Anglo Irish Bank, which is the major creditor in this case.

The down side of such a deal, if it is not fully transparent and accountable, will be that we will not know what the assets are and the way they are being divided up. The public has an entitlement to know what is going on. I have every reason to expect that such dealings will be in public and that in regard to ministerial consent, if it is needed, the public would have full knowledge of what is going on because they are entitled to know that.

Mr. FitzPatrick and people like him have put the country in the most appalling condition. They have put the taxpayer in debt, which will affect not just this generation but probably the next. Some months ago the Taoiseach, Deputy Cowen, said that this is the first time young people will be worse off than the previous generation. The country is facing a serious crisis and what we want is accountability and transparency regarding any deals to which Government gives its consent.

The days of the golden circle have long gone when Mr. FitzPatrick and the other people would attend the functions in the Galway tent with Fianna Fáil. It is the golden circle that brought us to this stage in our society and collapsing around us are the old ideas and ways which have been shown to be rotten to the core, as the banking system has been found to be.

I refer to people like Eugene McElearn, who worked in Anglo Irish Bank and who went to the then Financial Regulator some years ago with a complaint about over-charging and was not listened to. Eugene McElearn was the group internal auditor for Allied Irish Bank and he was unhappy with the overcharging going on in his bank. When his bosses refused to listen to him and continued with the over-charging, which was estimated to be in the region of €30 million at that time, he wrote to the then regulator and the regulator did nothing about it.

Mr. McElearn was then forced to try the legal route. He also tried the Freedom of Information Act route, which did not apply. He was put to the pin of his collar but insisted on pushing his case to the very end. When he met with Senator Shane Ross and myself we brought him before the Oireachtas committee and the then chairman, Deputy Michael Moynihan, was very helpful. We had a full and frank debate. Subsequently, when the then chief executive of Allied Irish Bank came before that committee he exonerated Mr. McElearn and restored his good name but it was a bitter, dreadful fight involving one man against a system that was rotten to the core.

Eugene McElearn has remained unemployed as a banker for the past six or seven years and the only reason for that is because he stood up to the system. He said it was rotten. He spoke to his bosses in the bank. He spoke to the then Financial Regulator and nothing happened.

We need people like Eugene McElearn running our banks, advising our bank boards and getting involved in our financial affairs. It is people like Eugene McElearn who fought the system, still suffer as a result of the system and have not worked in banking since because they have been blacklisted, even by current banks. That is not acceptable. It is that mindset which was endemic at the upper levels in our banks, our regulatory regime and our political parties, and particularly in Fianna Fáil, that has brought us to the sorry mess in which we now find ourselves.

I am sure our parents, if they had a bank account, may have owed a few pennies, as many did when trying to rear large families in years gone by. On the Chord Road in Drogheda where I lived one would see every Friday a decent man, the bank porter, on the instructions of his bank manager, walk up the street in his uniform and put a letter into the letter-box of whatever poor unfortunate happened to owe the bank a few bob. The whole street would know that Johnny Murphy was in trouble with the bank because the bank porter had delivered a letter to his home. Everybody knew that the bank porter was only doing his job and that he was a decent and honourable man. There was at that time an attitude in the banks towards ordinary people. They were treated as unworthy and beneath the local golden circle. At that time, people worked hard to rear their families, obviously with the help of many banks. The psychology of the relationship between the ordinary person and banking class was I believe, from the banks' point of view, haughty, unhelpful and discriminatory. I am glad this has changed. I regret what had to happen before many of these bankers were booted out, although some of them remain within our system. There continues to exist the belief that it is often who one knows rather than the validity of one's case that gets one what one wants at a particular time.

I agree with Deputy Tom Hayes on the need for credit, the creation of employment and the need to ensure that people who are seeking moneys to run a good business, as are many people, get the support to which they are entitled. This morning I received a telephone call from an individual who has a good business idea but whose business is not sustainable without a loan from the bank. The banks are not providing credit and thus another opportunity to sustain or create employment will be lost. As shown some years ago in the American economy, at the core of job creation will be small businesses who, if supported, will bring about significant multiples of employment right across the country. The creation of four, five or 20 jobs here and there adds up and will make a significant difference in terms of the creation of employment. The key point is that the creation of employment requires the backing of sensible people with good ideas. If small businesses are not supported we will not get the recovery we so badly need. Every Member of the Oireachtas knows of scores of people in their communities who are in extreme situations because they are not getting finance. To allow businesses to close or to not assist them in the creation of new jobs is, unfortunately, becoming the order of the day.

Another issue that arises under our current banking system is the number of people receiving letters in regard to mortgage interest rate increases. Again, ordinary people are suffering. Not alone are they suffering as a result of mortgage interest rate increases but they are suffering job loss, reduced income and may be in negative equity. The expectation that upwards of 300,000 homeowners will be in negative equity by the end of this year is an appalling vista for us to contemplate. Members may have read yesterday about what is happening in Greece, about the increased cost of Irish debt and about, as referred to this morning by Deputy Kenny, the fact that the Irish Government holds a significant number of bonds in relation to Greek investments in our banks that may never be repaid, all of which are serious issues of concern.

The actions of this Government and the Administration in place for 18 of the past 20 years has led this country to this appalling abyss. Its policy, actions, closeness, involvement and participation in the golden circle in the banks and with the Seán FitzPatricks have brought about a significant change of public opinion. People are extremely angry about what has happened. I acknowledge the change in the office of the Financial Regulator. This Bill brings about significant financial reforms which are to be welcomed. It contains many good provisions. However, until there is a change of Government we will not have clarity of thinking or get the changes that are ultimately and totally necessary. There remains serious issues of concern to be addressed. The bubble in terms of home ownership and in respect of the banks has burst. People are losing their jobs and nothing seems to change under current Government policy. The Government is not considering changing the economy through job creation. The Fine Gael spokesperson in this area, Deputy Coveney, has put forward a rigorously thought out and costed programme in regard to job creation. Until we focus on and invest in job creation we will have but more of the same.

This Government is failing abysmally in its duty of care towards the unemployed. As Members of the Oireachtas, we all know of families whose members must emigrate. Young people who cannot get employment in this country are travelling the long and distant road to places such as Canada and Australia for work. Another issue of concern is people who have returned from abroad. I am sure many of my colleagues have received representations on the issue of habitual residency and returned emigrants, many of whom may have gone away for one, two or three years and who, having lost their employment abroad and returned to Ireland are being treated like pariahs because they are not considered habitually resident here. The fact that they can prove they are unemployed and have lost their jobs does not necessarily entitle them to social welfare benefit here. This significant issue needs to be addressed. The habitual residence clause in respect of returned emigrants is being applied disproportionately against applicants. I am receiving evidence of this every day. Perhaps the Minister of Social Protection, Deputy Ó Cuív, will address this issue when he has time in the near future.

I reiterate that what we want from his Government is transparency and accountability in terms of any dealings or deal reached by it with Mr. Seán FitzPatrick. We need to be assured that in consenting to any such deal the Government will treat Mr. FitzPatrick like any other citizen of this country, the only difference being that he happens to be one of the people responsible for destroying the economy of the country. We are entitled to know what is going on in respect of his affairs, in particular given it is to the Government, through Anglo Irish Bank, he owes this money.

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