David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)

I am pleased to be able to say a few words on the Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill 2009. I welcome many of the measures proposed in the legislation. As the Minister stated, planning is about people. However, having read the Bill and listened to the contributions of other Deputies, I have a feeling that we are closing the door after the horse has bolted. The boom is over and building is at a standstill yet many of the provisions in the Bill appear to anticipate significantly more construction in the near future. I do not believe that will be the case. I cannot see it occurring, which is another issue.

It is a shame that much of this work was not put in place six or seven years ago before the boom started. Many of us are aware of situations where great numbers of houses were built but without infrastructure. This is something I have been saying for years because what happened has led to a very serious and dangerous situation. Housing estate after housing estate was built with very little community provision, sports fields, playing fields, youth centres or schools. In my own area, east Cork, a great deal of development was built along the much heralded and welcome Midleton railway line and ten years from now, if my figures are correct, approximately 2,000 extra second level school places will be required. Some land has been zoned for building schools but that kind of zoning is no good if the land is not purchased or acquired and planning put in place. That takes a long time and it might be a number of years before a school is in place.

In my part of the country, and I am sure it is the same in other places, the secondary schools are already full. I am sure the Minister of State realises a secondary school is not like a primary school. In a primary school another room can be added on, or, as the Government has been doing for years, portacabin can be added to portacabin. One can get away with that for only a certain period of time at second level because specialist rooms are needed. There is need for home economics rooms, engineering and building construction rooms and, in particular, science laboratories must be put in place. This is not happening throughout the country, especially in my area. I have seen the map the Department of Education and Skills produced and my area is one of the few marked in bright red.

On many occasion during many years in this House I have tried, through parliamentary questions and Adjournment debates and all kinds of other methods, to stimulate debate on how we might deal with this emerging crisis but I could not do it. I might as well be on the other side of the moon, talking to myself, because I get no reaction or response, no debate, nothing. Yet this crisis is brewing at present.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Finneran, to the House. I shall repeat for his ears, although I am sure he will spend some time reading the transcripts, that in my area within ten years we will need 2,000 extra second level school places. Due to the planning and zoning and everything else that has gone on and because there was a lack of any Government direction in this area we now have a situation where some land has been zoned for schools but nothing has been acquired or built and now the secondary schools are full.

What will I do next September, or later, when parents come to me and tell me their son or daughter cannot get into a secondary school anywhere? What would the Minister of State do? What can be done? All I can do is raise the issue, flag it and alert the Department of Education and Skills and the Ministers of the day to the problem.

I repeat, if the Minister of State is listening, that in my part of the country in east Cork we have a re-opened rail link. As a consequence much land was zoned in order to make the rail link viable and the people who built the houses had to pay a special levy to fund it. There are very many houses, but, as I said before the Minister of State arrived, there are no community centres, no sports or playing fields and no schools even though land is zoned for them.

The Government must look at all of this even though it is like closing the door after the horse has bolted. I cannot see any large, medium or even small-scale development happening in the future. We must look at what has happened in the past ten years and see how we can correct it. I note that the Minister spoke about correcting certain aspects but I do not see anything in the Bill that will help do that. He spoke about flooding but that refers to the future. How can we correct the mistakes that were made in the past? How can we acquire land to build schools and community centres and put in playing fields and youth centres? That is what we should do.

We should be building communities not merely housing estates. We must start looking at the thrust of this. How can we build communities? The Minister of State, Deputy Finneran, spoke at one stage about a housing Bill and at the time I made a similar speech to the one I am making now. It is an important matter.

I welcome what is stated in the Bill about flood assessment risks and guidelines. However, we may not need these for some time. There is a provision in the Bill about reviewing land that has been zoned already and there is the idea of de-zoning land. That is important. Linked to all of this is the fact that much of this land will probably end up with NAMA, with the State owning it. Is there any way by which local communities might benefit from the fields outside towns and villages which will never be built upon in our lifetimes? The State owns them but most of them will only grow weeds. There is an issue about noxious weeds and who is responsible for them because they, too, are illegal. Would it be possible in some shape or form for some of these fields to be used by local communities for recreational and amenity purposes, as local parks or something like that? That is something we might do to address some of the situations the Minister mentions in his Bill. He mentions sustainable, high-quality living communities. We do not have them and that is a goal we must achieve.

I also welcome the notion of linking regional and national plans and so forth. In principle that is a good idea but, again, it presumes there will be a great deal of development in the future.

All land zoning will have to be the subject of public consultation at plan-making stage to ensure public confidence. Again, I agree with that. Two thirds of members' votes will be required for further change in a draft development plan. That is a good idea.

There is an issue regarding the number of estates that exist. The Minister of State will probably have an interest in this matter, given his responsibilities. There are very many estates which are in a limbo situation. I am not sure what the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, plans to do about this because I do not see the matter addressed in his Bill. Perhaps it should be looked at. I am told there are approximately 400 estates to be taken in charge by Cork County Council alone. In many cases developers have sailed off into the sunset and their companies have gone wallop. Who is responsible for looking after these estates? It is very difficult to know. If there is a problem in an estate where the bond has been handed back but the council has not taken it in charge, where do residents get redress? There is a certain estate in a small town close to me, in Cloyne, where there have been major problems with sewage. The entire system just stopped working and redress was very difficult to get. The developer was not available and the local authority is stretched already. What do the residents do? What can the Government do to help them? What is contained in this Bill that might help in a situation like that, or that might seek to redress it, as was discussed earlier.

Recently there has been a debate about proposals to knock down houses that may never be lived in or those which cannot be sold. Some part of me feels there is something radically wrong with that, given that so many people are on housing waiting lists throughout the country. Many people are crying out for houses but cannot get them. It seems that NAMA will take over many of these so-called ghost estates, although not all of them. Some of these housing estates are finished, although others are not. Is there any way of giving such houses to people who need them right now?

Representatives of the Homeless Agency organised an awareness coffee morning in Leinster House today. It seems almost sinful to knock new houses that have been built to a high standard at a time when people are living in deplorable conditions. Is there any way of solving both of these problems in one go? We could use these houses to put a roof over the heads of people who have no houses, or are living in overcrowded conditions. That is a challenge for the Minister of State with responsibility for housing. A certain amount of imagination is needed if we are to deal with these issues.

I agree with the intention to introduce a statutory protection for whistleblowers in the local government system. We need to build on that approach. We really need to look at the general issue of whistleblowing. Having been a Member of this House for almost 13 years, I am aware that the Opposition has made many attempts over the years to introduce legislation to protect whistleblowers. The Government, and Fianna Fáil in particular, does not like that concept. It has voted such legislation down and knocked it at every possible opportunity. It is about time some light was shone on many areas of our society.

If I can wear another hat for a moment I would like to say that if this House were allowed to operate properly, many of the problems which are surfacing now, which will cost the taxpayer billions of euro, might not have developed in the first instance. If Members could work as we are supposed to, for example by inquiring and asking detailed questions at committee level, this House would work as it should. Ministers should be prepared to engage in proper debates with Deputies on all sides. The Executive should engage with the Parliament, rather than going into a bunker. I do not see anything wrong with allowing Government backbenchers to ask questions of Ministers. They should challenge Ministers and test their policy proposals. That is how we should operate in here.

It should be possible for this House to adjudicate on everything in the public sphere, including all the quangos that have been established by Fianna Fáil over the years in order to protect Ministers. When Ministers come in here, they often say they do not have responsibility for certain matters any more. They have given it to one quango or another. In such circumstances, how can we ascertain what Ministers are spending taxpayers' money on? If we cannot get at them, how can we get information on the decisions they are making or tell whether such decisions are in the public interest? It cannot be done.

I suggest that the existence of so many unaccountable quangos is an affront to democracy. The sooner we rein them in, the better. I do not suggest that the staff of such bodies are doing anything wrong, as many of them work very hard. If every official in every organisation were accountable to the nth degree - if they knew they could be questioned - it would ensure they do their business properly. When representatives of the National Council for Special Education appeared before the Joint Committee on Education and Science recently, they were questioned intensely by Members from all sides. The same thing should happen in all cases. I welcome the protection being given to whistleblowers in this Bill.

I would like to speak about section 20 of the Bill, which is important. When the Minister, Deputy Gormley, introduced this Bill in the House, he said that the section "proposes an amendment to section 35 of the Act, which will allow a planning authority to refuse permission where the applicant has carried out a substantial unauthorised development, including a development with no permission, or has been convicted of an offence under the planning Acts, subject to certain conditions". I understand that up to now, certain cowboy developers have been able to build housing estates, leave them half-finished, go into some form of liquidation and disappear into the sunset, thereby leaving owners and residents in the lurch. We have to ensure that does not happen again. If this measure can be retrospectively implemented, so much the better.

Section 20 is very important, as I have said. We have to ensure it provides for a means of chasing these guys and making them accountable. It is not right that people who spend hard-earned money - who have mortgaged their lives for 25 or 30 years - find their housing estates in a mess. We need to protect citizens from cowboys who may wish to ride off into the sunset. I urge the Minister to examine section 20 to ensure its provisions are very strong. I would like to know whether "the applicant" referred to in this section is always a person, or may sometimes be a company. Can a developer dissolve his company, set up a new company with a different name and continue to engage in the same business? That is what goes on. It is important that we use section 20 to chase down directors and owners who may wish to hide behind shell companies.

I wish to sum up my thoughts on this planning and development Bill. I have spoken about the need for local authorities to take estates in charge. Perhaps the Government should have a long look at that. Planning is about people. I welcome many of the provisions of the Bill, which is probably six, seven or eight years too late. I am concerned about the integration of schools with the planning process, which was mentioned by the Minister at the beginning of this debate. The huge problem across the country in that regard also relates to youth and community centres. The land that is to be taken over by NAMA should be used, rather than having weeds growing on it for God knows how long. The Government should ascertain whether the houses that have been proposed for possible demolition can be used for social housing in some shape or form. The actions of those who break the law, including the small number of cowboy developers, make people's lives a misery. Some people who have put their heart and soul into the purchase of houses have been left in an awful situation. We should ensure that the legislation is sufficiently strong to deal with such cases. It is important that local authorities have the teeth and the resources to take action. I thank the Chair for giving me a chance to make a few remarks.

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