Michael Moynihan (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)

I thank the Acting Chairman for the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Road Traffic Bill. I have lost members of my family and close friends, including people who worked in this House, through road traffic accidents and deaths over the past number of years. I know full well the pain and anguish which goes with road traffic deaths. I understand the issues which pertain to it and the devastation it can cause. Anyone who travels the length and breadth of the country will see the roadside monuments to those who have lost loved ones to road traffic deaths.

The Bill is about saving lives. In correspondence the Minister said he is saving lives and reducing injuries on our roads. There must be another debate, a point on which a number of other speakers have touched. I refer in particular to the lowering of the blood alcohol level from 80 mg to 50 mg. The evidence is that will contribute to saving lives on our roads. I have studied the reports and information available. We should implement the current legislation, which sets the level at 80 mg. Further reducing it, and making criminals of people, in particular elderly people in rural Ireland, those living in isolated areas and travelling once or twice a week to their local pub for one or two pints or glasses of Guinness, does not shine a great light on us as legislators.

I note, in particular, that a section of this Bill outlaws the use of the Probation Act. Other legislation on drugs and serious crime includes the Probation Act. We outlawed its use in this Bill in order that elderly people, people living in isolated areas or people who drink one or two pints or glasses of wine are not affected. The Probation Act applies to major criminals, including those who are dealing in drugs and destroying the fabric of society in cities and rural Ireland. It is a nonsense and must be reflected in any discussion on this Bill. We should examine that. It is very easy to have a Garda checkpoint at 11, 12 or 1 o'clock in the morning on the outskirts of villages and towns. I do not agree that people should drink excess alcohol but I support those people who want to go to their pub one or two nights a week for one or two glasses or pints of Guinness. I support their right to avail of that opportunity.

We debated this subject last November and there was a great deal of media attention on it. Of course, the finer points of the debate were lost. It was interpreted as support for drink-driving. Nobody supports drink-driving. As I stated, I have lost family members and very close friends in road accidents. However, during that debate reasonable people who are dealing with social and rural isolation were in touch. I forwarded to the Minister documentation from Suicide Aware, a group set up to prevent suicide and to promote discussions on the issue. The group wrote to me at the time about the issue and about the media coverage of the lowering of the blood-alcohol level limit. I shall read from the letter for the record of the House and perhaps the Minister and the Department of Transport might take the point seriously and form an opinion on it. It is fundamental to the issue we are discussing, particularly with regard to the lowering of the blood-alcohol limit. Suicide Aware stated:

We are a Cork-based organisation involved in the areas of depression and suicide-related issues in the community. We are extremely concerned with the proposed new legislation regarding the further reduction of the drink driving alcohol limit and we congratulate you on your stance in relation to the isolation of rural communities and the effect this new proposed legislation will have on rural Ireland. Like ourselves, you are obviously in touch with the ordinary people of rural Ireland whose only weekly contact with either neighbours or friends is a few hours weekly in their local pub. Their further isolation will be very regrettable and have serious consequences for these communities. Current figures show that a 20% increase in suicide and depression related illness presents in rural Ireland. What statistics are there regarding these issues and the same isolated rural dwellers regard death on our roads due to alcohol, and, most specifically, the more senior members of our community. It is time for the Minister to get in touch with the ordinary people of Ireland and deal with the real issues concerning these same communities who in many cases are afraid of criminal attacks in their own homes. We believe his concern in this regard would be of far greater help than increasing isolation in rural communities. Again, I congratulate you on the stance you are taking on behalf of isolated people in rural communities.

That is a fair statement from people who are at the very coal face of trying to prevent depression and isolation in rural communities. It would behove the Department of Transport and the Minister to listen. The Minister wrote back to me when I sent this letter, saying that he respected my right to believe whatever I like with regard to this matter. I outlined my response on these points but that was the only response I got. When an organisation dealing with a fundamental issue in our community brings this matter up, at least we could have the decency to respond and reflect the legislation accordingly.

I feel very strongly about this because I see the effects. I come from a very rural part of County Cork and I see them. I see people who travel one or two nights a week into their local pubs for two or three glasses of Guinness. Even the Probation Act is outlawed with regard to this Bill. When we are passing legislation, surely to God we should have the decency to look out for these people who have difficulties. We do not all have taxis or family support, people who can drop us up and down to the pub. Any society should consider these vulnerable people.

I read the report on road safety and I refer to a particular paragraph that mentions the blood-alcohol level: "However, the research on reducing the level further from 80mg to 50mg has not seen the expected decline in alcohol-related collisions." My point is that the vast majority of fatally injured drivers who have blood-alcohol levels recorded display a higher rate than 80mg. The accidents that occur happen to people with greater amounts of alcohol. I have read all the reports on this matter and the smaller amounts of alcohol recorded are completely inconclusive with regard to this. I appeal to the Minister to look at this point.

I hope somebody is listening who might look reasonably at this matter and take a sensible approach to it. First, I believe the Probation Act should be allowed to apply. If we are going to criminalise and penalise people who drink two or three glasses or pints of Guinness while we let the drug barons and all the rest of them have the benefit of that Act, it is a sad reflection on the people who drafted this legislation and on those who are bringing it through this House.

A concession was made with regard to penalty points for the first offence. As it stands, the Bill allows penalty points and a fixed fine to be used only once in every five years for a person caught with a blood-alcohol level of between 50mg and 80mg. What should be enacted is that on the first occasion three penalty points would be imposed, on the second, four points and on the fifth, five penalty points. That would be a realistic proposal. I hope somebody is listening who can reflect it adequately and that the officials can take the suggestion back to the Department. I am disappointed that the Minister for Transport, Deputy Noel Dempsey, is not in the House to hear the debate.

The Bill allows for penalty points to be imposed only once in every five years. The period should be reduced to one year. The Probation Act should be applied, there should be a little bit of common decency and we should not criminalise people who drive to their local village for a game of cards on a Tuesday or a Friday night, have two glasses of Guinness and drive home. No sensible person wants to make common criminals of such people.

I have discussed this legislation with very many people. If the legislation that is currently on the Statute Book were to be enacted properly we would not need to go any further. Let us enact it. Nobody agrees with what was happening ten, 15 or 20 years ago in regard to drink. However, we have seen, and see still, the demise of the rural pub. We note the amount of alcohol being drunk at home and what happens after those home alcohol binges. At least in pubs there is a controlled environment. When the night is over, no further alcohol is available but when one goes into houses, one sees a very great amount of alcohol being consumed. The measures, especially of spirits, are huge. Pubs have been an integral part of society throughout the entire country. Irrespective of whatever legislation this Dáil or any other Parliament may enact, we will have issues with regard to alcohol and intoxicating drugs.

There is a far more serious issue in rural areas and urban settings, which latter have been blighted by drugs for decades. Information has been reported to every Member of this House about the availability of drugs in the most remote rural communities as well as in the cities. People are exasperated because there is no legislation in place to allow the Garda go after the people responsible in a coherent and positive way. However, this legislation will be rammed through the House to ensure that the man or woman who wants a glass of wine in a house, or the man who wants one or two glasses or pints of Guinness, will be made into common criminals. We must be mindful about this. Everybody, myself included, wants to ensure that our roads are as safe as humanly possible. However, I do not want it achieved by throwing out the baby with the bathwater. We can do this in a sensible, coherent and positive way.

We know of the various issues in regard to the Road Safety Authority and the great many other issues that need to be dealt with. However, any safe and balanced view of this legislation would have to be that it is draconian. I propose that the Department would reflect on what I am saying and consider the issue in regard to penalty points for a second offence. The Bill should be reconsidered to allow for three points for the first offence, four for the second and five for the third, and penalty points should be allowed to be re-imposed after one year, not once every five years. The judge should have discretion in regard to some offences because they are at the minor end of the scale. These are sensible approaches.

I know of a man who drinks two glasses of Guinness and no more. He has a problem with his hip and is living in an isolated rural community. On one occasion, local gardaí thought he was walking in an intoxicated manner and he was taken home in a squad car. It frightened the living daylights out of him and he will now not even go out at night and is isolated in his house. I hope that is not the intention of the Minister or legislators.

While this issue is vital for rural communities in particular, when it was discussed on the airwaves in November last, we were surprised at the number of people in urban areas who contacted us to try to ensure they could at least have one drink and some social interaction after, say, a round of golf. By and large, we are talking about elderly people who are retired and may be isolated in their communities, with no family backup. Where there are large families, support networks, cars and drivers, the situation is all very well, but this matter needs to be examined.

I have made my points as fairly and squarely as possible. Reducing the blood alcohol level from 80 mg to 50 mg is a direct attack on vulnerable, isolated rural people. I appeal to the Government, the Department officials and the Chief Whip, who is present for the debate, to reflect very carefully on this matter and to ensure we are not breaking a nut with a sledgehammer. I have outlined the issues about which people dealing with suicide and depression in rural communities have contacted us. They take a very balanced view and it is they who are at the coalface of what is happening in rural communities. As the previous speaker said, one would wonder whether the Minister is in contact with what is happening in rural communities or understands the level of social isolation.

We talk about better public transport and having transport available for people in rural communities at a time when Bus Éireann is cutting routes, not providing more routes. Thankfully, we were able to ensure that the rural transport initiative which is being set up was spared the cuts proposed by an bord snip nua. I contend that the an bord snip nua report was intended to cut off services to rural communities because they were not being used enough. It is said measures to help rural communities will be put in place and that consideration will be given to social isolation. At the same time that this is being said out of one side of the mouth, this legislation is being pushed through and Bus Éireann is cutting routes throughout the country due to reduced usage. This is creating a huge problem for rural communities, and I appeal to all concerned to give serious consideration to this issue.

This message needs to be related in a very strong and positive way. I thank the Acting Chairman for the opportunity to contribute to the debate. I sincerely hope the officials present and the Minister will reflect carefully on what I have said.

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