Martin Mansergh (Tipperary South, Fianna Fail)

Deputy McManus was correct that mining operations in the past, which were welcomed unconditionally at the time, left much to be desired. As someone who had a responsibility for the energy section in the Department of Foreign Affairs for three years in the late 1970s, during which time we had the second oil crisis, and who worked closely with colleagues in the then Department of Energy, I have a certain ongoing interest in these matters. Energy policy is of great importance to the State as a whole into the future.

I welcome the Bill as a confidence-building measure. Public safety is and should be integral to energy regulation, recognising the distinction that is made between the health and safety of workers and public safety for both local communities and the community at large. The background to this legislation is the ongoing Corrib gas controversy. Nobody would argue that it is not legitimate to have safety concerns and to have them properly responded to. It is generally accepted that at the beginning of that project, communication with the public left much to be desired.

The facilities being constructed have been moved as far away from dwellings as possible. However, we must be realistic and accept there is no such thing as absolute safety and security. Advanced societies have industrial and energy plants, pipelines and high voltage electricity. For many years, fertiliser trains moved between Marino Point in Cork, through the centre of the country and through the centre of Dublin, down to Arklow. In certain circumstances, such as at the Bantry Bay terminal in 1979, there is a potential for disaster. It is essential, therefore, to learn from experiences at home and abroad, maximise safety to the greatest extent possible and give the maximum in reassurance to the public.

At the same time, modern society is inconceivable without many of the facilities that in a worst case scenario could create a disaster. A very small example of the kind of conflict that exists is the fact that the vast majority of us use mobile phones but many people still complain about telecommunications masts. It is a question of reconciling the difficulties and the risks.

There is no doubt that the authorities of the State and the Government have shown extraordinary patience with a very prolonged protest. It is vital to protect our infrastructure. There has been a very high cost in policing and delays caused by civil disobedience, using semi-guerilla tactics within the framework of civil disobedience.

One of the reasons for planning procedures and laws is to resolve conflicts of this kind and those should be respected. There is much benefit to the local community from extension of the network and also security of supply. Having our own gas would at least give us security of supply.

There has been some debate in the background about the terms of exploration and development and this is ultimately a matter for the Oireachtas to decide. I do not think this can be decided or determined by local protests. There is an assumption that there are potentially vast resources in the ocean. I agree that it is more than likely we have significant oil and gas reserves but there is no evidence that I am aware of that we have anything approaching North Sea levels of oil and gas. A great illusion which has been around since the late 1970s is that this would provide the answer to all our problems but it would not. There is a notion we should take charge of all the exploration and the development but the costs are vast and the risks are high. Also, significant amounts of capital would be required and we have many other pressing needs. In my view, a lot more realism about what can be achieved is required in terms of oil and gas exploration. I agree that such exploration can make a positive contribution to local and national life but there is no El Dorado off the west coast of Ireland.

While there is much talk of renewables which is a policy supported by all, we have to be realistic in the short term as to how much of our energy needs can be supplied by renewables. I recently visited Ardnacrusha following the Shannon floods. When in operation, Ardnacrusha provides approximately 40 MW of electricity for approximately 40% of the year. Wind energy has a contribution to make as do other renewables but gas is one of the staples of energy supply and it is clean and convenient. It also fuels electricity across western Europe. I do not think there are people who wish to revive the nuclear project which was discussed in the late 1970s but there are countries in Europe, notably Germany, which are still moving in the direction of getting out of nuclear power and there are plenty of hazards. I refer to interconnection across the Irish Sea. I remember Jack Lynch's Government being in favour of this project and talking with the British Ministry of Energy in the years 1978 to 1980. One must rub one's eyes to see that 30 years later, it is still only about to be implemented, with the assistance of some EU cohesion funding.

This Bill is a positive measure for which I congratulate my colleague and his senior Minister. It is important that the greatest possible independent expertise is brought to bear and that it is integrated into the licensing and regulation.

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