Michael Ahern (Cork East, Fianna Fail)

I am pleased to have been given the opportunity to say a few words on this very important Bill. Especially since the Abbeylara case there has been much discussion on all sides of the House on the powers of the Oireachtas to call witnesses and insist on their attendance.

I do not pretend to know the detail of this Bill and the legal issues surrounding it. Having listened to the comments of both Deputy Rabbitte and the Minister of State and read some of the briefing, I am aware that there is a need for further examination of the Bill's legal aspects. I am sure that the Minister will take note of what the Labour Party has published in this Bill.

There are already considerable powers in the Oireachtas to conduct inquiries and investigations appropriate to these Houses. It is not widely known that the Committees of the Houses of the Oireachtas (Compellability, Privileges and Immunity of Witnesses) Act 1997 already contains provision for Oireachtas committees, whose terms of reference permit the calling of persons and papers, statutory power to compel the attendance and the co-operation of witnesses and furnishing of documents. The 1997 Act also confers High Court privilege on all persons directed to give evidence or present documents to such committees. This is virtually identical to the absolute enjoyed by Members of the Houses. At committee sittings, the chairman always begins by stating that Members have absolute privilege, but that witnesses do not. This 1997 Act shows that they have a considerable privilege.

Powers to compel the giving of evidence and powers to grant privilege and immunity to those required to testify are the two elements essential to the legislation. The symmetry means that those compelled to answer questions must be given protection from any adverse legal consequences of complete responses. The committees in the Oireachtas have considerable powers, in spite of the view put forward that they did not have any powers such as those set out in the 1997 Act. The existing arrangements are a balance between the rights of individual citizens to due process and fair procedures, and the entitlement of the national Parliament to investigate and examine questions of urgent public concern.

The banking inquiry brought the issue to the fore again, which is why it is before the House tonight. The Government has already said that there will be an independent statutory commission of investigation, which will be established to identify, examine and report on the causes of the systemic failures in the Irish banking sector. Reports will be completed by the Governor of the Central Bank and by the two wise persons, Mr. Klaus Regling and Mr. Max Watson. These three men will appear before the finance committee in the next few weeks and they will listen to committee members' view and be briefed on our priorities for the investigation. They will also advise the committee of the methodology they will be using in their reports.

This Bill was drafted to facilitate an inquiry by a committee of the Oireachtas into the banking crisis, whereas the agreed framework of the inquiry will involve the Oireachtas at various stages. The Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service will meet the Governor and the independent experts and brief them on our priorities for investigation. When those preliminary reports are completed, they will be laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas, and the committee will be invited to consider the findings in the reports. The terms of reference and the draft Government order to establish the statutory commission of investigation will be laid before the Oireachtas, and the report of the commission will also be laid before the Oireachtas. The committee will then give its consideration and it can hold public meetings on the report.

This Bill provides an opportunity for the views of the different parties to be made public. It provides an opportunity to the Minister of State to let people know what powers exist in the Oireachtas. It also provides an opportunity to make it clear that the banking inquiry is not a secret inquiry. There will be an input for Members of the Houses to discuss the reports that will be brought forward by the Governor of the Central Bank and the wise men. There will also be a discussion on the commission report when it comes before the Houses. This will provide people with an opportunity to examine and make their views known on the reports when they become public.

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