Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)

I do not have the detail for an exact reply to the second part of the Deputy's statement. It will have to be obtained from the Department of Finance and the Public Service, which have it. I can get it for him. As I said to the Deputy - I think last week - in regard to this matter, the reasoning for it was outlined publicly by the Minister for Finance. He and I have outlined to other Deputies here that the overall contribution from people at those grades is, as one would expect, progressively higher than people on lower grades. I have given some of the reasoning behind that.

With regard to industrial relations as they stand, I am aware of the fact that we do not have a level of engagement in the social partnership context. Social partnership is about more than one pay agreement. We have fora like the National Economic and Social Council, which predates social partnership, still available to us in terms of how we can engage with social partners on matters of economic and social importance.

The point to be made is that the Government had to reluctantly proceed with making decisions in the context of the budget without the full agreement of the social partners - I have acknowledged that - despite everyone's best efforts. The background is set out in the record of the House of 9 December.

While there has been a reaction to the decision by Government, the question remains as to what is the best way to proceed from here. It is, I believe, ultimately through re-engagement. I accept that the present atmosphere is not good for that but, as with all disputes and all industrial relations problems, employers and employees have to try to find the right context and agree the agenda in which to proceed. We have many areas in common, both as employers and employees, in terms of identifying ways and means by which public services can be provided in this country in the context of a very difficult financial situation. We should try to pursue that but, at the moment and as things stand today, that dialogue is not available to us. I believe it should be available to us as soon as we can arrange it, if that is possible.

See this speech in context