Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)

Everyone is in agreement that there is an anomaly whereby judges who are on high pay fall outside the normal rules that apply to civil and public servants. I refer to Article 35.5 of the Constitution, which states, "The remuneration of a judge shall not be reduced during his continuance in office." We all want an independent Judiciary. Deputy Shatter, who is an authority in this area, asked the Minister of State to give a commitment that the Government will hold a referendum on the matter in conjunction with the constitutional referendum on children's rights. It would be normal practice that such a referendum would take place on the same day. My understanding is the Government has already provided funding in the current Estimates for the referendum on children's rights to take place. It is important this measure be put in place to preserve, in the eyes of the general public, the integrity of the independence of the Judiciary.

I note the Minister of State, Deputy Pat Carey stated in his speech that "Ministers of State will take a permanent reduction of 10%", and yet in Table 1 the figure for a Minister of State is "8 per cent of remuneration". The Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, might deal with the inconsistency in terms of what is being put out in the public domain. The Minister of State did not answer the question as to why the Government felt it fair and reasonable to exempt the lower paid in the public sector from the pension levy and does not see that the same rules of fairness and equity should apply to a pay cut. He needs to explain that measure.

The key matter is that the Minister of State take on board the views of Deputies Bruton and Shatter, who produced a Private Members' Bill on the issue which is a practical measure. From the Minister of State's comments, it would appear he agrees there is a need for a constitutional referendum. Will he give a Government commitment on that?

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