Martin Mansergh (Tipperary South, Fianna Fail)

Regrettably, both of the proposed amendments conflict with the constitutional position of the Judiciary because they would reduce the rates of remuneration of judges generally or specifically and cannot be legally accommodated within the Bill. The emoluments and allowances of the President cannot be diminished during her or his term of office. The Constitution states: "The remuneration of a judge shall not be reduced during his continuance in office." It is not qualified by any reference to circumstances.

It has been underlined forcibly, particularly by Deputies Charles Flanagan and Alan Shatter, that the independence of the Judiciary and the rule of law are key principles in our democracy. That is the reason for the clear constitutional provision. The Government intends to abide by the Constitution. In its opinion, the amendment proposed by Fine Gael is not constitutional and cannot be incorporated into the Bill.

On Second Stage yesterday, it was acknowledged that a referendum would be needed to modify judges' pay. It cannot be modified through this Bill. I have been reminded of Deputy Shatter's Bill, which is before the House but which has not yet been debated. I cannot pre-empt the Government's deliberation on it but can state it is logical from what I have been saying that a constitutional amendment would be required if, in an economic or financial emergency, judges' pay were to be reduced and to be commensurate with that of all other public servants.

The amendment proposed by Deputy Burton would allow the President and members of the Judiciary to volunteer for the pay reductions to apply to them. This is unnecessary as there are existing voluntary waiver mechanisms in place. The President and members of the Judiciary have already waived portions of their salary in respect of the pension levy. The Minister for Finance announced that a mechanism will be provided in the forthcoming finance Bill to facilitate such waivers. However, it will not be singling out the Judiciary. For the aforesaid reasons, neither amendment is acceptable.

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