Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)

As Deputy Shatter has said, there are a number of very important principles we need to be fully cognisant of in terms of this debate. One is the separation of powers. This goes back to the foundation of the State and is something fundamental that I believe people would be loathe to tamper with. We all understand that.

Another important principle is the fact that we have been well-served by the judges, again going back to the foundation of the State, from the lowest to the highest courts in the land. They have international reputation and standing, which is justified for the excellence of their judgments, the professionalism in which they go about their work and for their impartiality. That balance is something we all accept and respect.

We need to be aware of another constitutional provision as Members of Dáil Éireann and the Seanad Éireann. Under the Constitution we cannot enact laws or make resolutions which we knowingly believe to be unconstitutional. The dilemma, as Deputy Shatter indicated as regards Article 35, is that it would seem to be a cut and dried case that we cannot reduce judges' pay. The political issue revolves around the question as to why we have allowed this issue to fester for 12 months. Two Deputies on the Government side at that time called for the referendum that Deputy Shatter has now proposed and published. I recall Deputy Niall Collins, the Member for Limerick West, publicly saying the Government should have included the members of the Judiciary in last year's pension levy, as proposed in the context of the 2009 budget. Twelve months later and no progress has been made.

Whatever about the dilemma as regards cutting the pay of members of the Judiciary, I believe a very strong case can be made for having the pension levy imposed on them. Take the case of a District Court judge on €150,000, or thereabouts, as gross pay, who loses about one third in tax, leaving take-home pay at around €100,000 a year, or about €9,000 a month net. I spoke to a young teacher yesterday with a mortgage of €1,200 a month, on a gross income of €37,000. This time last year that teacher was taking home €2,300 a month. Under the Government's proposal that has now gone down to €1,800, a drop of €500 a month in a 12-month period, yet District Court judges taking home €9,000 a month are seeing no cut whatsoever.

Did the Government not foresee this problem, knowing that it would have to seek another cut from the public sector? It has allowed this issue to fester for 12 months with no political solution to the dilemma being presented as a result of Article 35. I want to hear, not alone from the Minister of State, on this, but also from the backbenchers who publicly took to the airwaves 12 months ago to deride the Judiciary for not participating in this. We have seen many fine examples of members of the Bench who have voluntarily decided to hand back parts of their salary. Also, we have seen such an initiative from former President Mary Robinson while the incumbent, President Mary McAleese, has shown great leadership, by example, in terms of her pay and conditions. However, there is a political issue here which the Government has failed to address over 12 months, because it must have known it was coming down the tracks again, given the public furore regarding the pension levy last year. I do not believe it is fair that a young teacher loses €500 a month, thanks to Fianna Fáil and the Green Party, while a District Court judge keeps everything. That is not fair.

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