Michael Kennedy (Dublin North, Fianna Fail)

I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate. I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, for sharing his time with me.

Along with the Taoiseach, Ministers and all the people in my party, it does not give me any pleasure to come in here to talk about cutting the pay of public servants, or indeed anyone, but we must recognise that we are facing a serious financial situation. With a deficit of €22 billion this year, a greater one likely next year and the fact that we are borrowing €420 million per week it behoves us to take corrective action and I believe the public at large, including our public servants, recognise that we must take that action.

I have great admiration for those in the public service. I have many friends, and some relatives, who are teachers, etc., and I admire their professionalism and their dedication. When one considers the broad range of the public sector, whether it is teachers, gardaí, the Army, firemen, nurses, doctors, civil servants or public servants, by and large they do a fine job and are a credit to their organisations.

We should put on record, and I want to do it now, that some of the comments in the media recently have been over the top. As in any organisation there is a minority of people who do not pull their weight and bring the organisation down. The critical comments about the public service are over the top because the vast majority of people do a committed job in a very professional way and give value for money but we must recognise the serious budgetary constraints we face. In making the cuts I acknowledge that the Government, Ministers and Deputies have taken their share of the pain. That is only right. It would be neither appropriate nor acceptable if we were to say we should not take cuts. We took our share of the pain last year with the levy and, equally, our pay will be cut this year in line with the public service. In making those cuts we must recognise that we are doing it for the good reason that we do not have any other option.

I am of the opinion that all of us must share in the pain. When one reflects on our budgetary position, one cannot be over-selective. There are sectors in our society that are not paying their share. I cite the Judiciary. Last year I issued press statements asking the judges to voluntarily take a pay cut if it could not be done through a legal mechanism. I do not believe that judges who are paid more than the Taoiseach should be able to take those salaries, particularly when taxpayers' money is paying their salaries and pensions.

I appeal to those judges who have not agreed to the voluntary deduction to do the honourable thing and make that cut. As I have stated publicly previously, if they are not prepared to do so, I believe the Government should hold a referendum. I welcome the support of Deputy Shatter, who introduced a Private Members' Bill on this issue. I believe that a referendum probably will be held on the issue of children's rights in the future and equally, a referendum should be held on judges' pay unless they make voluntary cuts. I believe this to be reasonable and certainly, among those from the public services who have contacted me by telephone or written to me by e-mail, a common theme is that judges and people in the semi-State bodies should share in this pain. I do not doubt but that there are people in the semi-State organisations who believe they should do so and should cut back on their salaries.

Likewise, reference has been made to bankers and it is ridiculous that banking institutions that are receiving aid via the State should be in a position to pay bonuses. While I recognise the Government has capped the upper limit in respect of senior bankers, ordinary banking officials should not be in a position to receive a pay increase next year when others throughout the country are taking pay cuts. This is how this issue of fairness must come about. Moreover, I certainly believe that partnership is not dead. In the past couple of days, many of those who have contacted me have made the point that their unions are willing to return to negotiations. The recognition that €4 billion in cuts must be made both this year and next year is acknowledged by all parties in this House and by the unions. It is the mechanism as to how one achieves it that is at issue. However, the people with whom I have been in contact, from teachers to civil servants, nurses etc. all have stated that their unions are willing to re-engage and to show the Government how €1 billion in savings can be achieved.

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