Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)

The Minister of State has said he is doing everything he can. He mentioned that round-table meetings are being held to collect information, etc. He did not acknowledge the truth of the problem - the reality of why it is the way it is. The European Investment Bank money is new money. The real problem we have is with working capital. The long-standing overdraft facilities of businesses are being reduced, removed or turned into loans. Businesses are being told that the margin on their interest rates over the EURIBOR is being increased. Some charges that were refunded to businesses in the past are not being refunded anymore. Charges are being increased and cheques are being bounced.

These problems are associated with working capital, by and large, rather than with new lending. This is happening because the banks are bust. That is the truth of it. It is not necessarily badness on the part of the banks. The banks' developer loans are not working. Just 65% of their small business loans are performing. Their personal loans and their mortgages are in serious trouble. The banks are bust. No round-table meeting or other information-collecting mechanism will make a difference. Does the Minister of State not agree that the only thing the Government can do to restore credit to business is to establish a new bank from scratch and capitalise it with State money so that it can lend to business?

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