Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)

The key issue as far as Copenhagen is concerned is that, first and foremost, Europe is prepared to lead. Ireland very strongly supports that line. To go back to the point made by Deputies Timmins and Creighton, the solution which will come from Copenhagen will have to be balanced. Europe cannot carry the full burden. The other nations in the developed world, in particular the United States and the rapidly growing economies such as China and India, must carry their fair share of the burden too.

The first phase will be to decide what the overall global targets are while the second phase will be to decide what proportion will be taken by Europe. At that stage, the discussion will have to be on how the member states will share the burden, as happened after Kyoto. That is the sequence in which the issue will be decided.

Deputy Costello made a very important point on bio-fuels. It would be great if the alternative energy sources could be sourced within our country because that is the best way to go. To go back to my time in the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government when the Department produced a joint paper with the Department responsible for energy, that was the intention. That is the way it will develop.

Deputy Costello was correct that we need to be very careful about the issue of bio-fuels. There is a clash between, and a debate on, bio-fuels and food production. The Deputy made the point that there is a discussion about the extraordinary situation of rainforests, which are part of attenuating carbon emissions and which hold the carbons, being destroyed to produce soy which goes to feeding cattle that are transported half way around the world and end up on plates in Europe. That issue must be looked at.

The point Deputy Costello missed in his contribution, in particular on the pronouncements yesterday by the Minster for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, was that bio-fuels by their nature will cut our carbon emissions problems. Again, to go back to my time in the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and when we were rapidly developing as an economy, we had issues in regard to very large amounts of carbon emissions, for example, from the building industry, other industrial activity and even transport. The downturn has had the effect of dampening that.

The key point which will inform the discussions after Copenhagen, because it is generally agreed that a final solution will not be agreed there, is that there will have to be equity and, to go back to Deputy Creighton's point, Europe cannot carry the full burden. The United States, the other developed countries, Brazil and the rapidly growing economies must carry their burden too. That will be the key issue which will have to be decided. In my experience after Kyoto, that is exactly the kind of trading that went on internally in Europe, that is, to decide the individual burdens or the tonnages to be carried by each member state.

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