Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)

I thank the Minister for sharing time with me and for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this important Private Members' motion tabled by Deputy O'Dowd and Fine Gael.

It is a timely motion because it is appropriate to discuss in a responsible fashion how we can improve oversight and transparency not only in regard to the bodies named in the motion but also other State agencies and commercial bodies. I agree in general on the need for these principles when expending public moneys. The motion refers specifically to CIE as a commercial State company and the NRA as an independent statutory body and in a more general way to other State agencies and semi-State companies.

Given that the NRA's accounts are subject to audit by the Comptroller and Auditor General and the role of the Committee of Public Accounts in overseeing that official's reports, I believe that body is properly scrutinised. The NRA will appear before the committee in early December to discuss an issue identified in the Comptroller and Auditor General's 2008 report. Any member of the committee can ask questions about the NRA's accounts in the presence of the agency's executives and the Accounting Officer of the Department of Finance.

The catalyst for this motion is CIE and the recent revelations contained in the Baker Tilly report. I cannot understand why the company did not inform the Minister in a timely manner about significant issues involving fraud and losses to the Exchequer because of poor financial controls over procurement procedures. These issues should have been identified at the earliest opportunity but I hope the report he is awaiting will address them in detail.

As a member of the Committee of Public Accounts, I believe the structures we have in place for examining the reports of the Comptroller and Auditor General are effective. In respect of the appropriation accounts of Departments, the HSE, the VECs and the financial statements of non-commercial State sponsored bodies, the committee provides an excellent forum for interrogating witnesses on expenditure decisions to ensure that correct procedures have been followed and value for money achieved.

As the motion notes, CIE has spent more than €6 billion of taxpayers' money since 1997 and the NRA has spent more than €13 billion since 2000. These are vast sums by any measure but the great majority has been spent wisely. I can only speak from my personal experience as a public representative for Cork. Huge improvements have been made in the areas for which CIE and the NRA are responsible. Our motorway network has dramatically improved and a fast and safe road between Cork and Dublin will be complete by next year. New rolling stock has been provided to Iarnród Éireann and the Cork-Dublin line was the first intercity service to use the new fleet. These developments have transformed the experience for the travelling public in a positive way. There is now an hourly train service between Cork and Dublin and the Cork-Midleton line was reopened earlier this year.

When we speak about the various forms of State bodies, it is important to recognise that the legislation establishing an individual body provides the statutory framework for its operations. As the Minister has pointed out, Oireachtas committees play a particularly important role in this regard. When I was first elected, I put down a number of questions on the status of NRA projects in my constituency and was surprised that I was unable to elicit this information. I acknowledge Deputy O'Dowd's argument that the NRA should not be required to produce the same level of detail as Departments but substantive issues could be addressed by way of parliamentary questions. Given the amount of public money involved, it is important that Members can receive timely and comprehensive information. I do not see how we would threaten the role or functions of the NRA by being able to ask questions. Where it is appropriate, we should reassert the primacy of Dáil Éireann and its elected Members. In certain instances, power can be devolved from this House to a designated body such as the NRA, which has the necessary statutory powers to overcome the significant obstacles lying in the way of a national road strategy.

A code of practice for the governance of State bodies requires compliance with measures such as annual reports, half yearly accounts, certificates of compliance, details of internal audit functions and competitive tendering. It is the function of the boards of these bodies rather than the Oireachtas to monitor the activities of executive management. We recently debated proposals on an Oireachtas committee to oversee the workings of NAMA. While oversight is important, it cannot be allowed to interfere with the operational decisions that have to be made by bodies. The motion makes specific reference to financial, budgeting, procurement and accounting processes, all of which are matters for the boards of the bodies concerned. Reference is also made to improving the accountability of these boards. Perhaps Deputy O'Dowd will clarify how that might be achieved given that the NRA is already fully accountable to the Committee of Public Accounts. The NRA operates transparently in terms of its website, Transport 21, freedom of information requirements and the reports of the Comptroller and Auditor General.

CIE is also subject to a number of important provisions. Its annual reports are laid before the Oireachtas and its constituent companies appear before the relevant committees on a regular basis. The Exchequer's capital and current funding for CIE is dealt with in the Estimates process and the Secretary General of the Department of Transport reports to the Committee of Public Accounts on the disbursement of this funding. Ministerial nominees to the boards of these companies play a particularly important role in reporting on issues of key concern. In the case of CIE, the Secretary General of the Department is accountable to the Committee of Public Accounts. I thank Deputy O'Dowd for tabling the motion and the Minister for an opportunity to contribute.

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