Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)

Not so long ago those banks said they had loads of capital. When they got €7 billion, they continued to say they were adequately recapitalised but we know they were not. They were and are telling lies. That is why we are reluctant to give them only targets and guidelines on credit facilities for small and medium-size enterprises because there is no guarantee they will provide that credit.

If it was the real market value where would the Minister be? One need only look at the market value of Liam Carroll's properties which stand at 25% of their value two years ago, or at the Irish Glass Bottle Company site which cost €412 million two years ago and is now worth barely €60 million. That is not a 25% mark down. That is almost a colossal 90% mark down. The Anglo Irish Bank flagship headquarters is a derelict site in my constituency. Nobody seems to know who owns it or what will happen to it. It is worthless. When I get a chance I will ask the local authority to put it on the derelict sites register and find out eventually who owns or will own it. I presume it will fall to NAMA in due course.

NAMA will value approximately 21,000 loans and 50,000 properties using the Minister's hybrid valuation, a so-called market value, a so-called long-term economic value, with various people and agencies intervening to give the benefit of their wisdom on the value. What will the benchmark be? Does the Minister have an idea as to what money is required for the adequate recapitalisation of the banks in Ireland so that they can continue to do meaningful business? Will that influence NAMA's guesstimate of the figure it will impose? Will it fall on the side of the long-term or the existing, market value? Does the Minister have a formula for NAMA's target?

Does the Minister have a formula for determining the actual target that these properties will realise? I know a ballpark figure has been stated but more than 70,000 units will have to be assessed. We will have to sieve through these using the complex methodology of valuation to ensure that there will be enough money for the Minister to put into bonds and for them to be cashed by the European Central Bank. It is very much up in the air, largely because there is no clear valuation mechanism. The provisions in Part 5 do not clarify the situation. It is a long way from the amendments put forward by Deputies Joan Burton and Arthur Morgan of where the market value relates to the current market value of an asset. We will have to wait months just to know how far away from it we are.

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