Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)

I move amendment No. 2:

In page 16, between lines 35 and 36, to insert the following:

"2.---(1) For the purposes of this Act, the "Oireachtas Committee on NAMA" shall mean a Select Committee of each House, or a sub-committee thereof so enjoined and appointed by Resolutions of each such House, established with the purpose of monitoring the implementation of this Act, including all acts done in furtherance of this Act.

(2) The Committee shall be chaired by a member of Dáil Éireann who is not a member of a political party whose members form part of the government for the time being.

(3) The functions of the Committee shall include:

(a) to approve or decline the persons to be appointed by the Minister to the Board of NAMA ("the Board") in accordance with section 19,

(b) to approve the appointment of casual vacancies to the Board under section 24,

(c) to approve the person nominated by the Chairperson of the Oireachtas Committee on NAMA to the position of Chairperson of NAMA in accordance with section 25,

(d) to approve codes of practice under section 34,

(e) to approve any guarantee issued by the Minister for debts and/or securities raised under section 48,

(f) to approve the form of accounts to be kept under section 52,

(g) to approve the appointment and remuneration of an expert reviewer under section 109,

(h) to, at the absolute discretion of the Committee, make an appeal under section 119 in the public interest where the Committee sees fit,

(i) to approve codes of practice under section 149,

(j) to review the operation of NAMA, and develop and publish recommendations for the amendment of this Act,

(k) to approve the form, of reports on credit flows and hear evidence on them,

(l) to review the shareholders agreement undertaken by the Master Special Purpose Vehicle,

(m) to approve the membership of the Valuation Panel, and

(n) to investigate any matter of concern to the Committee pertaining to NAMA or to the operation of this Act.

(4) The Committee shall have such powers that are reasonably ancillary to the discharge of its functions, which shall include, but are not limited to:

(a) to require the attendance of an officer or staff member of NAMA or a participating institution to attend before the Committee and give evidence on such matters connected to the operation of this Act as the Committee may direct, and

(b) to require production of any documentation from any person attending the Committee to give evidence under paragraph (a), which is material to such evidence.".

On Committee Stage, there was a broad consensus that the necessary Oireachtas oversight of this body should be much stronger than any oversight we have previously envisaged. The difficulty with the Minister's proposal is that it envisages that the Oireachtas will oversee the National Asset Management Agency in the same way that it oversees the Health Service Executive, the National Roads Authority and many other bodies. It is clear that there is growing discontent with the degree of oversight in those areas. It is much more vital that we should have proper oversight of a body that will spend €54 billion on behalf of the taxpayer. Investment on this scale has never before been contemplated in this country.

The Minister is aware that many people are sceptical about this high-risk strategy. Equally, many people have significant doubts about the business plan with which we have been presented. People of great experience have cast enormous doubt on the underpinning of the business plan. One of the worrying elements of the business plan is the assumption that land and development properties that are currently yielding a 6% performance will eventually yield an 80% performance and thereby repay in full the moneys borrowed in respect of them. These things are very hard to believe.

A sceptical Oireachtas will want to keep a close eye on the activities of NAMA. Members will want to know that those who are put in charge of NAMA are appropriate and suitable. We will be concerned to see how they develop NAMA's codes of practice. The purpose of the proposal before the House is to provide clearly for the establishment of an Oireachtas committee that will ride shotgun on the performance of NAMA, which will be a vital part of the future of every individual in the State. In our amendment, we have set out the various functions we believe the committee should fulfil. I have withdrawn some of the elements of my Committee Stage amendment which the Minister rightly argued could be seen to interfere with NAMA's day-to-day management activity. Instead, I have sought to confine Oireachtas oversight to general policy issues in which it would be appropriate for the Oireachtas to have a role. The appointment of the board of NAMA will obviously be a crucial issue. The Minister has said informally that he is willing to engage in negotiations or discussions with Opposition parties on this issue. While Opposition parties have a role, the Oireachtas has a wider role. I propose that the agreed group which will emerge from the Minister's consultations should be open to approval by a responsible Oireachtas committee. As the Minister has indicated he is willing to contemplate such a provision, I hope he will accept this amendment.

It is also important for the Oireachtas to be in a position to oversee codes of practice. Many of the codes that are to be developed will be vital not only in the management of this resource, but also in respect of people who have been brought into NAMA with performing loans. They will want to see codes of practice that allow them to access borrowings for the purpose of developing those sites. They have been paying everything and have a legitimate expectation that they will be able to raise finance. NAMA is not a bank and, therefore, people with performing loans will want to see codes of practice in place to allow them deal with this. Equally, they will want to see codes of practice that govern all sorts of abuses that could arise. The Oireachtas has a right to oversee and approve codes of practice under section 34 on the grounds that they will govern how circumstances develop. The Oireachtas needs to have a role in respect of the types of accounts to be presented on a quarterly basis, as has been accepted by the Minister.

The Minister was sympathetic to the view that it is important to protect the Minister by giving the Oireachtas a role in the appointment of members of the valuation panel and of the expert reviewer. These individuals will be playing a quasi-judicial role in deciding on appeals in regard to the valuation or inclusion of assets within NAMA. These decisions have financial implications amounting to billions of euro. The Minister was uncomfortable about being the decider of last resort without clear guidance on the basis on which to make a decision. He indicated on Committee Stage that he would welcome a role for the Oireachtas, particularly in respect of the expert reviewer and the valuation panel.

A vital issue that arose in the debate concerns the master special purpose vehicle, SPV. The Oireachtas understands why it is being contemplated but does not understand why there is not proper supervision of the activities and membership of the board. At a minimum, the Oireachtas needs to have oversight in respect of the shareholder agreement so it can be satisfied that agreement protects the taxpayer in the operation of NAMA. Thus, there would not be a board, controlled by a majority of private interests, in a position to usurp the proper authority of NAMA. It is vital not only that the master SPV be regulated within the legislation before it is passed but also that the Oireachtas have some role in the supervision of the shareholder agreement and the activity of the master SPV.

The powers of the Oireachtas committee will clearly have to break new ground. Traditionally agencies have bamboozled Oireachtas committees because they have a monopoly on expertise and the assembled information. An Oireachtas committee dealing with a body as complex as NAMA will have two arms tied behind its back unless it has access to expertise that can inform its questioning and scrutiny of the agency. It is very much the view of Fine Gael that we need an adviser to the committee of the calibre of the Comptroller and Auditor General. We have proposed a monitor from the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General who would have access to all the papers in NAMA and who could advise the committee so it could efficiently and professionally scrutinise the agency in its operations.

There is broad consensus in the House that an oversight committee is needed. The Minister appears to be of the view that he will defer the establishment of such a committee until after the legislation is completed and that he will then only do so on the basis of existing powers and terms of reference of the House. It is very clear that the committee desired not only by those in the Opposition benches but also those in the Government benches should go beyond what is envisaged in the standard terms of reference of Oireachtas committees. The Oireachtas, through the committee, will need to be able to deal with appointments to valuation panels and the board itself and to challenge inappropriate valuations. If this legislation is passed without empowering the Oireachtas in this regard, an Oireachtas committee established subsequent to the passage of the legislation will be a damp squib. It will not have the effective powers required to do the job that consensus in the Oireachtas suggests is necessary.

There is no question but that we are breaking new ground and taking on enormous risks. Many, including me, believe we are going in a wholly wrong direction and that we should be doing something else. However, we have had this debate and lost it in votes in the House. It is vital, therefore, that as we proceed, we try to protect the taxpayer in respect of the operation of NAMA. The Minister agrees to that in principle and I look forward to his backing up his agreement to protect the taxpayer with a powerful Oireachtas committee that can play a genuine role in breaking new ground in overseeing the operation of a body that will be so important to the country's future.

See this speech in context