Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)

I do not know how many pools in which the Minister for Finance fishes but I am sure after recent weeks, he would prefer if the Tánaiste kept all her comments to herself in that they seem to be endlessly unhelpful to him and the Taoiseach.

I would like to reflect on some of the points made by the many speakers who contributed to the debate, which was a very good one. We do not often have good debates in this House but this was a very interesting one. Deputy Frank Feighan suggested that all appointments should be advertised. That is not in the Bill but is something with which I very much agree. He also pointed out the extent to which Ministers will not answer parliamentary questions or say they are not responsible for the Health Service Executive or the National Roads Authority and yet they are the first to cut the ribbon to open a new hospital wing or a new motorway. That shows the hypocrisy of the way Government works in this country, that when asked to assist somebody, Ministers are not responsible but if it comes to a photo shoot or taking credit for something, they are the first people lining up.

Deputy Andrew Doyle spoke about the extent to which the change in the HSE has undermined services - first centralising, then decentralising and then centralising again. Deputy David Stanton pointed out the extent to which parliamentary questions are not answered and when they are answered, it is by way of private correspondence between the agency and the Deputy and therefore, it does not go on the public record. That, in itself, reduces accountability. That is a point I had not considered but it is valid.

Deputy James Bannon focused on the fact so much power is now vested in people who are not elected. The Government's continuing decision to denude local government of power and to set up new agencies has very much continued that process.

I refer to the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh's, response. He gave five reasons for not supporting this Bill. The first was his concern about chief executive officers being subjected to vetting by Oireachtas committees as it cuts across normal corporate governance arguments for boards to appoint chief executive officers. I take a very different view. The successor to Professor Brendan Drumm should come before this House. His appointment should be preliminary and we should interview him. The same should apply to the new governor of the Central Bank, which is a good appointment, but it would be appropriate for him to meet and testify before the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance and the Public Service prior to his appointment. If the Government has such concern about that provision, there is no reason it cannot support the Bill and delete that section on Committee Stage.

The Minister of State indicated that he did not believe there was anything wrong with the current system. He said Ministers can be questioned and held responsible to the Houses of Oireachtas to justify their appointments. However, that is not the case. They can only be held accountable after the fact when the appointment has already been made, and therein lies the problem.

The Minister of State and a number of other speakers, including Deputies Seán Ardagh and Michael Ahern, suggested that candidates may be discouraged by the prospect of presenting their credentials in a public forum before a committee. That is nonsense. Those who want to be, or who believe they are competent to be, chairmen of State agencies should have no hesitation coming before an Oireachtas committee to make their case. They are called to do so subsequent to their appointment so why should they not be called to do so prior to, or on, their appointment?

We could learn much about the kind of people put in charge of State agencies if we did this. When the chairman of the Labour Relations Commission, the chairman of the Labour Court and so on have appeared before committees, I have asked them if they would be prepared to do this. They have said they would welcome it and that they would have no difficulty doing so. They said they would feel they had more authority having received the approval of the Oireachtas and not only the Minister. I do not know who is afraid. Is it the potential candidates or, for some reason, Ministers who want to cover up some of the appointments they have made which are most inappropriate?

Another argument the Minister of State made was that there would be a total overload for Oireachtas committees. That is nonsense. Most of what Oireachtas committees do is not relevant. They should be given a more relevant role beyond select committees and this is one area where this should be done.

The Minister of State and other speakers pointed out that there have been some initiatives, including the Minister for Transport advertising positions on the Dublin Transport Authority and the moves by the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources in regard to the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland. They are only two agencies out of 1,000 and in those cases, it is only advertising the appointments. In the case of the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland, the Minister intends to appoint half the members which is exactly the way it is done currently with no transparency whatsoever. That is very little progress.

Interestingly, of the other Government speakers, very few spoke substantially against the Bill. Deputy Mary O'Rourke spoke largely in favour it. She supported the provisions in it with the exception of the chief executive officer provision and spoke about her role as a Senator in proposing that the Seanad should have this sort of role. Similarly, the principle was accepted by Deputies Seán Ardagh and Michael Ahern, except for the chief executive officer section.

What was most strange was the contribution of the Green Party. In contrast to his Fianna Fáil colleagues, Deputy Ciarán Cuffe said the Bill did not go far enough and that it is limited in its ambitions. That is a totally contrary view to that of Fianna Fáil. He said it did not apply to enough bodies and nor did it provide for enough diversity. Deputy Mary White claimed the Bill did not go far enough. In contrast to the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, and the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, she supported explicitly the principle of Oireachtas ratification of public appointments and that Oireachtas committees should review them. She also said overseas appointments should be confirmed by the Dáil, an approach which the Minister for Finance regards as unprecedented, except in the case of the Comptroller and Auditor General. Again, one wonders how long this coalition will last when the Government parties are united in opposition to a Bill but for divergent and contradictory reasons. This is a bizarre Government.

I thank the Labour Party, particularly Deputy Higgins, for his contribution. I took on board his points about the flaws of corporate governance in, and the bad example set by, private sector boards. We should not think that in trying to change how public sector boards are appointed what goes on in the private sector should be honoured or followed.

Deputy Creighton summed up the essential thrust of the Bill. Fine Gael believes public appointments should be public, public bodies should be accountable and government should be transparent. Any Member who shares these views should have no hesitation in supporting this Bill.

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