Barry Andrews (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)

I am pleased to be able to speak on this Bill. I commend Fine Gael for putting it to the House and commend the discussion and the contributions of all Members of both sides.

Deputy Doyle made the point that there was an increase in crime in Wicklow. It is something that has been seen in certain places and it may be attributable to the difficult budgetary situation and the condition of the economy. However, we also must be careful, as Deputy Creighton stated, in not over-egging the pudding to try to persuade on the points we wish to make. We can create a fear of crime. We can create a situation where people are more in fear of crime than is necessary by using words that are intemperate and designed to achieve a political end rather than to inform or enlighten any debate. Unintentionally, one can create a spiral of fear and one can feed into this creation of the fear of crime. There is crime and there are figures for crime. The figures can increase from time to time but that does not mean that the fear of crime must increase. Among all of the western European countries, the rate of crime in Ireland is very low and yet there is a political incentive from time to time for political parties to show that they can out-muscle each other on the "hang 'em and flog 'em, throw away the key" kind of speeches that we have heard on occasion.

There is a balance between victims and perpetrators that is reflected in law. That is a fact of which we all are aware. I dare say some of the speeches tend to suggest it is an either-or situation. That is not the case. There is a fair balance in law and in the Constitution in respect of victims and perpetrators, and that is right and proper.

Deputy Creighton referred to the inviolability of the home, which is a right in the Constitution but which is not an absolute right. There are no absolute rights in the Constitution. All of these are conditional on other rights and the courts are continuously trying to balance the hierarchy of rights. It is not accurate to state we must either support the victims or the perpetrators. We can fashion a law in a civilised society and a criminal justice system that protects both.

Much comment has been made about the Law Reform Commission. The Law Reform Commission has an important role but because we are going to hear what it has to say does not mean that this debate is not relevant, it is very relevant. I introduced a Private Members' Bill in the last Dáil which preceded a later Law Reform Commission report on the same subject. The commission referred to the debate on my Bill, and the Bill itself, in formulating its proposals and statutory framework, and that has since passed Second Reading in the House. It underlines the fact that one can have a useful and informative Private Members' discussion on a Bill followed by a Law Reform Commission report, followed by action in law, and that is what we did on spent convictions. No doubt the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, is genuine in stating that he proposes to make changes when he has had a report from the commission.

As has been said, the importance and special status of a person's home is unquestionable. For example, there is a recognition of this in the Constitution as referred to. Equally, it is clear that there is a concern in some quarters as to whether the legislation in the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997 strikes the right balance in terms of the matter to which I have been referring. The issue has been raised by some Deputies that while in general it legislates adequately for circumstances where self-defence may be applied, it does not deal adequately with such a situation within the home. As all Members will be aware, the 1997 Act provides that reasonable force may be used to protect oneself or a family member or another, or to prevent a crime. The key factor is that the use of force must be reasonable in all the circumstances.

Another factor that has arisen in the debate is that section of that Act provides that the fact that a person had an opportunity to retreat before using force shall be taken into account in all the circumstances is not an absolute duty to retreat - that must be made clear in a reasoned debate on this issue - in determining whether the use of force is reasonable. That is a matter of law and it is something for a judge to inform a jury on.

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