Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)

It is an extremely complex item of legislation. What the Minister said a moment ago is one of the reasons Deputy Rabbitte, as late as this morning, made the important point that we should be meeting in committee with interested parties in respect of the Bill. As is his right, the Minister is continually involved in discussions with members of the Garda Síochána. That is an advisable course of action. However, we are not in a position to engage with gardaí in the same manner. I would have thought that the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights exists for just such a purpose. We would have loved to have thrashed out the issues of consequence we are debating, and our difficulties relating thereto, in a session with the Garda Commissioner. However, the Government has denied us that opportunity.

I agree with the Minister in respect of the level of evidence to be provided by a former garda or whomever to establish the existence of a gang. I also accept the fact that the provision of this evidence alone will not lead to anyone being convicted. However, I do not believe that the two can separated. A conviction will ultimately be based on the evidence provided in the first instance that a criminal gang existed. Lest there be any doubt, it is important, therefore, to specify in the Bill the matter of the need to provide corroborative evidence.

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