Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)

We discussed this amendment at length last night. Deputy Flanagan acknowledges that this is not the type of opinion evidence normally regarded by lawyers when we speak to the Offences Against the State Act. That opinion evidence goes to the guilt of the person. The reason we cannot accept the amendment on expert evidence on the existence of a gang is because two gardaí could be called, for example, to give evidence that from their direct knowledge there is a gang in existence in a particular geographic area.

I saw one of the lawyers who appended his name to the famous letter on "Prime Time" last night. He stated that there was a delusion of proof in this Bill but there is most certainly not. The proofs relating to the guilt or innocence of anybody is exactly the same; there is no delusion of proofs. He went on to say there is opinion evidence in this Bill on the guilt of a person but there is not.

As I explained last night, this is a way in which we can prove in court and put before the court the fact that there is a gang in existence in a particular geographic area. There is no way in which a garda would give evidence to say a particular person is a member of that gang, and that must continue to be proven individually.

See this speech in context