Seán Ardagh (Dublin South Central, Fianna Fail)

We have all come across individual cases of horror and abuse that have shocked us during our lifetime, but in my 24 years as a public representative I do not believe that as a nation we have ever been as shocked as we have been at the findings of the Ryan commission. We think of events like this in the past as historic events, events of war and holocausts, but these events are of our time. They are about our contemporaries, our boyhood friends, and now if these victims are not still in crisis in the UK, they are our neighbours and members of our community.

Like Deputy Ruairí Quinn, I am also a proud graduate of a wonderful education, lucky to have gone through primary school in a Christian Brother system in St. Vincent's in Glasnevin, a school mentioned in the Ryan commission report. I have great memories of that time. I remember Brother Hennessy behind his desk in fourth class, in front of 84 students. I remember the confidence he gave me when I entered this cauldron for the first time wearing glasses. When he said to me: "Tá siad go hálainn. Go mairir is go gcaithir iad" all my embarrassment evaporated. I remember Brother Walsh who taught us the national anthem and songs such as "A Nation Once Again". I remember waiting for my punishment from him in sixth class because he caught me smoking. He looked me in the eye and gently said "Suigh síos". He was a smoker himself.

These good men represented the majority of the brothers and lay teachers I interacted with at school. However, I cannot understand why when the teachers of those days graduated, they were given either a leather strap or a bamboo cane as a teaching aid. Occasionally, I saw their frustration and temper being vented on some poor victim. I wonder now how much worse it must have been for victims in institutions where there were no prying eyes. The horror of what happened behind the closed doors of those institutions is now vividly outlined in the recorded testimony of so many of the former residents of those hell holes.

It is appropriate that in 1999 the Taoiseach made an apology, with an admission that the State had failed in its obligations to ensure appropriate standards of care for children in these institutions. The Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse and a nationwide professional counselling service were established then. It is also appropriate that the Assistant Garda Commissioner has now been charged, late and all as this is, with examining the Ryan report. The Garda Síochána and the Director of Public Prosecutions will have the fullest co-operation of the Government in pursuing any criminal investigation.

I wish to touch on some issues that have arisen in this debate. One of these is the issue of secrecy. Legal advice received by the Minister states that applicants should be prohibited from recounting the stories of their childhood if they mention the fact that compensation was either applied for or paid as a result of what they suffered. This is not good enough. If people recount their stories it is unlikely the Government will sue or be sued by an individual abuser. However this legal impediment to telling one's story still exists and must be changed.

The issue of whether persons detained in reformatory schools still have criminal convictions has not been fully addressed. I am aware the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has said that any individual with a problem or doubts on such matters can write to him and that his officials will look into those concerns. This issue must be addressed in a more focused way.

On the question of a museum, I agree we should retain the records, the history, the experience and the voices of all the people who gave evidence before the Ryan commission. It is very important that these are maintained. I had the experience of visiting Yad Vashem in Jerusalem, Auschwitz in Poland and Ellis Island outside New York. Of these three, Ellis Island would be more of a comparator than the others and is the type of monument I would like to see in memory of these people, neighbours and contemporaries who suffered so much during our time in office.

The question of late applications must also be given consideration. Even if an application is submitted late, it should be taken into account. The Minister of State, Deputy Barry Andrews, has now met with a number of people based in England who suffered in these institutions. I hope and understand from what he said that their late applications will be fully accepted due to the exceptional circumstances.

I thank Deputy Ruairí Quinn for bringing forward this Bill for discussion which lets us put on public record our total distaste for what happened during those awful years.

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