Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)

I welcome section 5, which targets those in criminal organisations who give the orders. The legislation is part of the solution to dealing with this. Earlier, I referred to other aspects of dealing with organised crime. Section 5 zooms in on those who give the orders. Some of these people may not directly participate in the commission of criminal offences but operate at some level of the organisation's structure. Section 5(2) suggests those who direct need not necessarily be at the top of a given organisation and it recognises the different layers within such organisations. There is a person or group at the top who makes the money and issues the orders and such people must be top of the Garda's list.

I welcome that we will comply with international UN regulations because that is important.

I refer to a question which has been put to me regularly. Section 5 states the maximum penalty following conviction on indictment is imprisonment for life. Does the Minister really believe this is likely to take place? Many people see bad decisions being made every day in the justice system related to serious violent acts. There is a belief that some people who commit very violent acts do not necessarily get adequate time. I subscribe very strongly to the old fashioned view that if one does the crime one should do the time. Does the Minister really believe the assertion in section 5 that the maximum penalty following conviction will be life imprisonment? Many people have asked that question.

Recent days have seen the horrific murders of young fathers. I also refer to the case in Dublin North Central of the horrific murder of Donna Cleary who was gunned down by a particular gang. Although they do not seek revenge families and victims are calling out for justice and equality.

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