Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)

With regard to juries in Limerick, we have heard the testimony of the two Deputies on their experience in this respect. Court officials from Limerick are on record as stating there is a tacit understanding that there is no point in having gangland jury trials in Limerick. I have seen suggestions on alternative methods. We have asked the Garda Síochána about them and the Garda Commissioner clearly stated that he does not consider that moving trials would put jurors beyond the reach of intimidation of highly organised and ruthless gangs. He also stated that he is aware of suggestions that witness anonymity could be useful and that leaving aside any constitutional issues that might arise in that regard, we have to take into account the size of the country and the reality that the nature of the offences involved is such that in many instances witnesses can be identified in practice from the details of the evidence which they would be in a position to give.

The witness protection programme is relatively unsuccessful because of the smallness of the country and the unwillingness of our people to participate in a programme where they must uproot and go to a foreign country, set up a new life there and arrange to meet their family in an unknown destination in, for instance, Germany or France on a six-monthly basis. They are not willing to do that. The experience of the witness protection programme is that people have come off it and have come home because they miss their families and community and the Garda must put a significant number of people under watch 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Unfortunately, that is what happened in the case of Roy Collins. On Second Stage I quoted a letter sent to my predecessor prior to the death of Roy Collins from Stephen Collins dated 8 February 2008, in which he states that they are praying the State can improve the quality of their lives which is a living hell. He stated this in a letter prior to his son being killed. After his son was killed he wrote another letter and I met him and listened to his testimony. I genuinely state that whatever doubts I had about stretching the limit of legislation were put to bed once I met that man.

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