Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for the opportunity to speak on section 3 of this Bill. This is an important debate on crucial legislation but we are going away from the core issue. We are also forgetting about the real world as it was played out in this city of Dublin over the past few days. I ask my colleagues to listen to the voices of the people and victims before any final comments on the legislation are made. Those of us familiar with the drug and gangland issue through our constituents and work over 20 years know there is a war going on between gangland criminals and sections of the State. We must deal with the matter head on as it is unacceptable that victims in communities are being intimidated. That is the core issue in this debate.

Some of us have always taken a very strong pro-civil liberties and human rights position. The right to life and to be able to express views and opinions in a free democracy is an important human right. This legislation is about that, and we should deal with the intimidation of jurors in an objective and professional way.

From my experience I know it is a real problem. I spoke to 13 of my constituents in the past hour and half and they all expressed major concerns about being intimidated or threatened if they were on a jury in a case dealing with gangland crime. These are a mix of people working in the private and public sectors, some of whom are tradesmen. These people would worry about the protection of themselves and their families in such scenarios. Such a problem is real and forms an important part of this debate.

I have met people who have suffered fear with a capital "F". Many witnesses over the years, and not just recently, have been intimidated by some of these gangs and criminals. It is horrific to hear about some of the positions innocent people have been in while they have tried to do their civic duty. We should face up to the issue and listen to what people are saying about it.

Deputy Charles Flanagan commented on resources and I agree this is a crucial issue. Another important element in the debate concerns the management of Garda resources. There should be examples of good practice in policing and good management. I remember when serving on a previous Oireachtas committee on justice hearing about some of the experiences of gardaí and from other international police forces. We saw some of the great work done both in this country and elsewhere.

I pay tribute to the sections of the Garda Síochána which do an excellent job, particularly those fighting gangland crime and involved in Operation Anvil. There are people on the front line dealing with the armed people who intimidate others, and there are other members of the Garda in the drug squad. The drug squad is made up of young men and women who take a major risk, and they fight battles every day that often do not make the headlines.

As Members of the Oireachtas we must support the efficient management of the resources within the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Garda. We must eliminate any kind of political cronyism in promotion and I would like to see the people who do a good job and show examples of good practice leading the Garda Síochána.

We have heard much about Limerick but in reality, the problem is widespread. Intimidation is not just confined to Limerick and people are living in fear all over the country. I see it regularly in my own constituency where people do not even have the courage to drop into the local Garda station when they know drug dealing is ongoing and there are people with guns up the street from their house. They are afraid of being burned out of their house. With regard to the minority of solicitors allegedly acting on intelligence for gangs, if that is the case they should be rooted out. I see a strong role in this for the Law Society. Such action is unacceptable; it is a scandal and a disgrace.

There is much discussion on the rank of gardaí with regard to evidence being provided. I have no problem with this being provided by good quality gardaí who may not necessarily be superintendents or chief superintendents. These should be people who know the issue on the ground and who have the ability and intelligence to provide credible evidence.

A very important part of this debate is often missed. We can go around the houses on particular aspects of legislation but it is very important that we listen to the voices of victims of crime. We saw the plight of one victim over the past few days and that incident was absolutely appalling. People should not think I will stand as a Member of the Oireachtas and stay silent on this. It is absolutely disgraceful that a young man in his own community could be gunned down outside his house. Two days from now that death will be forgotten. We must act on this, consider the facts and listen to the people on the ground who are demanding that we deal with gangland crime.

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