Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)

I commend my colleague, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, on presenting this motion. I support his request that the Government would consider not opposing this Bill in the House tomorrow when it comes to a vote. It is very important that we have consensus on this issue and that there is full agreement across the Chamber and across the country so that, in particular, we learn the very painful and hard lessons of the Ryan report.

I pay due respect to Mr. Justice Ryan and, before him, Ms Justice Laffoy, for the work they did. I accessed the entire series of volumes in the Oireachtas Library. We have a duty as Members of this House to read, in so far as we can, the Ryan report, although the extraordinary effect it has makes it very difficult to read. However, as a nation, we have to absorb it and take it in.

That Deputy Quinn referred so often in his contribution to the Republic is important. We are citizens of a Republic. This is about the voice of the people, and it is about allowing that voice to be heard and learning the lessons. I would endorse his proposal that we need a museum. We need to take in as a nation what actually happened in those institutions in the past, in our name. It was with the collusion of many of the most respected and prized institutions of our State that those things were done to those children, but these matters were left locked away in circles of darkness that nobody penetrated at that time. The door has now been thrown open and the information is out in the public arena. We have to learn from this and ensure this kind of thing can never happen in our names again.

I was not in this House a very long time when the initial apology was made by the then Taoiseach in May 1999, more than ten years ago. Right across the House and across the State, there was a sense that we had to work together to address what we were beginning to learn at that time. As a new Deputy, at the time I proposed on behalf of the Labour Party legislation to amend the Statute of Limitations in regard to the taking of civil cases for people who were victims of institutional abuse. The then Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the current Ceann Comhairle, Deputy John O'Donoghue, accepted that legislation, an Opposition Bill, and the Government of the time took it on board. While the Government amended that Bill and we did not agree with everything it finally contained, at least there was at that time a spirit of generosity and of people working together on this issue.

The various parts of the Bill we put forward tonight on behalf of the Labour Party are put forward as part of the unfinished business of the work of the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse, the Residential Institutions Redress Board and the other elements that have gone with them. They concern omissions and areas which the people in the Visitors Gallery and others have told us were omissions in what has been done since 1999, and which need to be addressed. For example, the people now in England, who went away after they got out of those institutions did so because this country had no place for them and had ruined their lives. If those people did not know in time to apply to the redress board, surely they should not be excluded from whatever recompense is now belatedly available to them, which will never give them back their lives or their childhoods. There is also the issue of the people who were in other institutions not listed on the Schedule that was initially put forward and later amended, such as the Regina Coeli hostel, which was highlighted by Marie Therese O'Loughlin outside this House, and the Morning Star hostel. There is also Derek Linster, who highlighted the institutions that were not catholic which were excluded, and there are others. People were excluded because of their age. There are many people who are currently excluded from redress who should not be excluded, including those from the Magdalene Laundries. This should be an all-inclusive provision and whatever gaps exist must be filled. We cannot leave this as unfinished business. We must ensure we respond fully.

I spoke last week in a debate on Michael Shine, another case which has emerged in regard to abuse of children - there are others, such as the case of the Brothers of Charity in Galway, which have also not been fully investigated. I made the point in that debate that people must have the opportunity to make their cases, to be heard, to be listened to and to be believed as credible people when they are telling their stories. What happened in the past was that they were not believed because they were people of no power. There were very powerful people in our society who said they should not be believed and it was all swept under the carpet. We must ensure these people are listened to.

If he does not mind me using his name, I pointed last week to the difference in the way in which John Kelly spoke on television after he was invited to Áras an Uachtaráin to have a validation of what happened to the victims of abuse by the highest office in the land, ten years after all of this came about. We saw this also during the march that came to Leinster House some weeks ago. This was the final recognition that people were telling the truth, that these things did happen, that they were wrong and that the State acknowledges they were wrong.. While I hope he will forgive me for saying it, the difference in what this has done for somebody who has gone through the process of fighting and ensuring there is finally an acceptance that this happened, including in the highest offices of the State, is huge. We owe it to every single citizen of our country, many of whom had to go outside the country to find lives for themselves, to include them in this process, which must have that all-inclusive nature. We should not divide on this very important issue in the House tomorrow, and I appeal to the Government not to do so.

With regard to the setting up of a trust and to the institutions providing appropriate recompense in terms of the balance between what the State pays and what the institutions pay, this is not about some kind of retribution on the institutions - it is about fairness. The proposal at the time from the Department of Finance that it should be apportioned roughly 50:50 between the State and the institutions where the abuse was perpetrated obviously did not come about because of the indemnity deal that was made, or the way in which it was made. That issue must be addressed and it must be done in an open and public way. Again, this is catered for in terms of ensuring matters of this nature are subject to freedom of information. I hope the Government will respond clearly about what it will do with regard to auditing the institutions, finding out what money is available and setting up a trust. It is very important to the victims and to the survivors that this process is at arm's length from the institutions, and that it is operated by an independent trust into which the money is paid, so they have the dignity of using an independent trust as opposed to having to go again to the institutions looking for money.

I conclude by restating the importance of not leaving open ends in regard to this matter, which has gone on for ten years and more. There has been at times very brave journalism and very brave people have been willing to go out there, up front, to ensure this is brought to public attention. It needs to be fully embraced by all of the people of Ireland.

We must adopt these measures to put in place the knowledge and systems to ensure this will never happen again and that we fully embrace as a people the learning process that must continue regarding these matters.

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