Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)

That is correct. The model the Deputy describes is risk equalisation which proved to be a bone of contention. All companies or practices would find contentious a requirement to transfer money to a competitor. Under the model proposed in the Bill, moneys will be transferred by the State through the tax system. From that point of view, the proposed system is preferable to direct transfers.

One cannot have community rating while filleting the Bill to the extent Deputy Reilly seeks. While I do not doubt the Fine Gael Party supports the VHI, the Deputy must not understand what we are doing in this legislation - I do not mean to sound arrogant - as he would not otherwise have proposed the amendments before us. If accepted, his amendments would fillet the Bill and we would be unable to continue with a system of community rating.

The Bill will apply for three years. If, however, a person takes out a premium in mid-2011, it will run into 2012. The year 2012 is referred to for accounting purposes. The legislation will apply in 2009, 2010 and 2011, but 2012 is included because premiums taken out in 2011 will run into 2012 as they are normally taken out for one year and paid in monthly instalments. The inclusion of the year 2012 in the text of the amendment is to address issues that arise as a result.

I do not believe for one moment that risk equalisation will be in place in three years, even if the Government were to change in the morning. Even Deputy Reilly acknowledges it would not be in place until year five. At least the Labour Party, when it last proposed its model, put a price of €4 billion on it. I invite Deputy Reilly to have his proposal costed by the Department of Finance. It is comic politics to suggest everyone will secure access to free primary care and 2 million more people will gain access to insurance without incurring additional costs. I would do this in the morning if that were the case.

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