Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)

We have gathered in this Chamber once more to speak about horrific events. As politicians, it would be much more appropriate for us to come here to welcome some pleasant events. It is disturbing that we are discussing this issue again, so soon after the debate on the Ryan report. I hope the Minister will accept this motion tomorrow night. I accept that she is examining every possible means of finding a way to agree with it. It is said that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. More than 140 people have contacted Dignity 4 Patients to say they were abused by Mr. Shine over the 30 years he spent working in Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital. Despite the claims that have been made against Mr. Shine, who is now in his late 70s, he receives a pension of more than €100,000 a year. Since he retired in 1996, he has received approximately €1 million of taxpayers' money. Mr. Shine has not been convicted in the courts. Deputy Johnny Brady is right to point out that he does not appear on the register of sex offenders. Clearly, many staff members and colleagues were turning a blind eye to what was going on in Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital. It is beyond belief that people and staff did not know.

No patient is ever safe if staff members rally around a perpetrator. People failed in their duty to protect the innocent patients, and also the victims were prevented from getting the justice they deserved. The dogs in the street in Drogheda knew what was going on and once again, people failed to act. Tribute must be paid to the Dignity4Patients group, but for whose efforts the activity of Mr. Shine would not have come to light. Mr. Shine was a cold hearted, calculating serial abuser and there should be no place for people like him.

In the Dáil tonight we shall all give out and say that regulations must be put in place. However, no matter what regulations are in place, they are of little avail against people who try to evade justice and are irresponsible. We see this in the case of drink driving even when we made all the regulations. Most people in Ireland who give up drink driving do so not because they might kill themselves or others but because they might lose their licence or increase their insurance. In Ireland we have to start accepting responsibility. It must be accepted from the church. We saw what happened with the Ryan report and all the church scandals. Nobody accepted responsibility.

This comes from a society dominated by a male hierarchy, where people are less than honest and there is a lack of flexibility. Such people believe they are untouchable. One sees it with some doctors who have gone through the system and become consultants. Once in that position, they believe they cannot be touched by their colleagues. One sees it in the legal profession where there is self-regulation and all the various scandals. One sees it among members of the Irish Medical Organisation and the Garda Síochána, as evidenced by the different situations that arose in County Donegal, which once again were wrong. Then there is the political system and the tribunals. How can the public have trust in the political system, the medical and legal systems and the professions when nobody accepts responsibility or apologises?

A former Taoiseach and Minister for Finance did not have a bank account and had to appear before tribunals which have cost the State millions of euro and involved many years of investigation. We need to arrive at a point where, for once, people will be prepared to say, "I'm sorry, we made a mistake". People go to confession in church and tell their sins. Why cannot people confess publicly, once and for all? It is hypocritical that we are debating this issue tonight when we ourselves, as politicians, never put up the hand to say, "We made a mistake" for fear of the consequences. However, is it not much better to accept the consequences when we stand up and are honest with ourselves? I believe that is true for all the interested parties to which I have referred.

Sometimes it is a matter of education and understanding. We need a holistic approach to these situations. It is hard to accept that nobody saw or knew about such incidents. There are so many reports, everybody knows what is going wrong but it is all to no avail. While everyone is innocent until proved guilty, perhaps there is a case to be made for plea bargaining or something like that. People not involved in politics easily form the impression that everybody else is getting away with it and it takes 20 years to get caught, and that at the end of the process they will still have pensions. Following the Ryan report, I said we are hypocritical in this country and we are liars and as such, deserve everything we get. We can put every system in place, have reports and inquiries, but if people are not honest with themselves and do not accept responsibility then we are going nowhere.

I accept it is a very difficult situation for the Minister to be in, and I know she will do her best to try to facilitate this motion. I should like to pay tribute to all those who were whistleblowers. For once the wagons were not circled and we are learning many lessons. However, it is 30 years too late. I think of the 60% or 70% of young men and women from those institutions who found themselves in the UK where they were treated fairly. We aspired to a united Ireland, as I said last week, but our people were divided by these institutions and a type of class system that has always existed. At least in the UK people were treated with respect, dignity and equality. We cannot blame this on the EU or Britain. We only have ourselves to blame. I believe that were it not for the fact we joined the EEC in the 1970s, this would probably be one of the most corrupt hypocritical countries in the world. We have come a long way, but it should not have taken 30 years for these horrific incidents to have reached the public domain.

I see that man walking around lovely leafy avenues in Dublin, on a pension. He has caused great hurt and brought shame on an honourable profession. We, the politicians and professionals, must ask ourselves many questions. The sooner we are prepared to say, "I accept responsibility, and I'm sorry", the better. "Sorry" is sometimes the hardest word to say among politicians and professionals. The sooner we learn to say it the better, as I believe it will make an enormous difference.

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