Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)

I welcome the Bill, which is essential in the current climate, particularly given the events of recent days when there has been slaughter on the Malahide Road and young men in their 20s have been shot down and murdered, and there have been other gangland killings, particularly on the northside of Dublin.

I strongly support amendments Nos. 13 and 19. However, we also have a duty, as legislators, to consider the amendments very closely. Amendment No. 13 in the name of Deputy Rabbitte states: "and may authorise interference with private property for the purpose of installing or operating such surveillance device without the consent of the owner of such property." There are serious issues at play here. I strongly believe this type of policing must be intelligence-led policing. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Dermot Ahern, is aware this is key in any strategy and knows we must have such policing if we are to tackle these issues. However, there are pitfalls of which we must be very careful, and issues of which we must remain conscious.

It is an issue I come across in my constituency. When people give me information about gangs, drugs or similar issues, they are very conscious when telling me the information that if there is any way it can be traced to them, their house, family or car will be burned out. This is the reality for many parents, particularly in very disadvantaged communities. I know many Deputies find at local clinics and during walkabouts in their constituencies that these are the kinds of issues which people whisper privately in one's ear, and the Deputies then pass on the information when meeting gardaí. However, ensuring our citizens are safe is the priority and must be an important part of the strategy.

A recent example which concerns the surveillance issue relates to amendment No. 13 and deals specifically with private property. We must be very careful, if private property is being used for intelligence observations of gangland figures, that those associated with that private property are not under threat themselves. In my constituency, gardaí often want to use schools as observation points for observing drug dealing. However, if the word goes out that the school or a particular classroom is being used by gardaí, that school will not last 24 hours without being burnt down. We have a duty to ensure the safety of our citizens at all times. I have direct experience of this. I know particular schools that turned down Garda requests in regard to surveillance because they were worried they would not have a school there when they came in on the Monday morning. This is a reality we must face and the people involved in justice and security issues must wake up to this situation.

Intelligence-led policing is the way to tackle gangland crime but there should never be a restriction of fair trial rights, which is not a contradiction. Trials are another way of tackling gangland crime, although this is often an issue people complain about, particularly those on the extreme right in this country. They say that those of us who jump up and down about human rights do not care about the human rights of the victims, which is rubbish. We are strongly in favour of the human rights of all our citizens and of having them treated on an equal basis. In this situation, the right to life takes priority, which is why I will be supporting the legislation. We cannot have young men in their 20s being shot down like dogs on the Malahide Road, as happened in recent days, and other incidents across the city, of which many Deputies have experience. There are those who advocate the role of the Special Criminal Court but this would do nothing whatsoever to tackle the problem of witness intimidation.

As I said, the key to the issue is good, intelligence-led policing and quality management of the Garda. I have seen excellent examples of good practice in regard to these issues. Where there is a good sergeant, a good drugs squad team and a good operation, much work can be done, much crime prevented and, more importantly, deaths can be prevented. There is not enough focus on preventing the loss of life. There is a big hurrah and reaction when somebody is shot down on a street but when it comes to trying to prevent this, not enough recognition is given to those involved, such as the gardaí involved in Operation Anvil, for example, who are preventing deaths, crimes and serious intimidation. It is an issue of which we should be very conscious and there are some fine examples of good practice in this regard. Surveillance is very important in preventing the loss of life and the sale of drugs.

While we are having this broad debate in regard to surveillance, I suggest there should be more surveillance of those involved in the purchase of drugs. We hear a lot of talk about those who distribute the drugs, which is important, but I am talking about the posh, middle class people who go looking for their little bit of cocaine on a Friday or Saturday night. They should be hammered because they are part of the problem, which is that there is a market for these drugs. Drug dealers do not make money unless there is a huge market. There is a reluctance with regard to certain people but they should be hammered. People in Irish life, including so-called celebrities who are involved in that trade and who sniff their bit of cocaine at the weekend, should be hammered and used as an example. It is very easy to get the young fellow from Coolock or the inner city and hammer him for doing something related to drugs. However, there are many people who are very well off, who have money and who generate a market for drugs and I have no mercy or sympathy for such people. I refer specifically to those involved in the music industry, the media, television and such people, whom we all know and some of whom joke or brag about it. That issue must be addressed. There is a market and I urge the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to hammer them.

Regarding gangs, communities alienated from the police and society must be turned around and won over from the point of view of the Garda. I recall when the late Tony Gregory was involved in the drugs issue in the north inner city. The Garda and especially the drugs squad should not seek the respect of the community, they must earn that respect and when they do so, they will have the full support of the community. That is a very important part of any strategy related to the broader debate. I welcome amendments Nos. 13 and 19.

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