Niall Collins (Limerick West, Fianna Fail)

It brings the whole debate into disrepute. That is my opinion on it and I am entitled to it.

Regarding Ireland and the three children's hospital locations, we have a population of 4 million people and the three hospitals have a combined budget of some €250 million. To bring them into one location will bring efficiencies and economies of scale. It is correct to compare Birmingham Hospital to Crumlin. Birmingham has a budget of some €212 million in comparison to Crumlin's budget of €144 million, a difference of 45%. Birmingham provided 32,000 inpatient treatments in 2008 and Crumlin provided approximately 10,000. Birmingham can provide about three times the number of inpatient cases because it operates in one location with a budget that is 40% higher than that of Crumlin. It is a comparable situation and we have to compare like with like.

Regarding health services in general, I have noticed a trend in all the debates here. There is never an acknowledgement given that during the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s and 1980s all political parties in the House contributed to the demise and deficit of capital and human resources in the health service, and that a catch-up had to happen over the last number of years and must also take place into the future. Every political party in the Chamber is responsible for that and that is the process in which we are now involved.

Having an agency like the HSE, which is detached from direct interference and input and from people in the Executive and in this House is the correct way to proceed. We have Members in the House who have a medical background and can contribute to the formulation of policy, and this is advantageous. Nobody in this House should have direct input or interference into the running of hospitals. We have people who are paid-----

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