Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)

I support the request by Deputy Bruton for the tabular breakdown. The Minister cannot rhyme it off but it would be of great assistance to us. In the case of one of the institutions encompassed by section 1, Anglo Irish Bank, the Taoiseach and the Minister have taken to using a figure of over €60 billion as the cost of winding it down. The figure has come under attack by those who could broadly be called experts in respect of the breakdown between commercial deposits by large corporations, retail deposits from non-corporates and whatever moneys are available from the interbank market, perhaps of the order of €30 billion. I would like to see these figures because it is time we made a decision on it.

I watched Alan Dukes, the public interest director, on "Questions and Answers" on Monday night. He is a man for whom I have a lot of regard but I was unnerved by his performance. It seems he has become a captive of the institution and faithfully rhymed off the official position. His attempt to explain how the bank has deteriorated dramatically in six months was not convincing. Six months ago it reported a profit of €784 million, six months later there is a €4.1 billion deficit. The impaired loans shot up by a factor of ten. Alan Dukes's explanation was that although this was known at the time, the laws of accountancy - his phrase, not mine - prevented it being reported. I have great difficulty if that is the public interest position being vindicated. Whatever the laws of accountancy say, if that was the state of the bank six months ago, we ought to have been told that in the public interest. Whatever the formal requirements of the rules of accountancy, the public and the reputation of the country stands to lose so much and the implications for the rest of the economy and the banking system are such that we should have been told this. I had some hope that when public interest directors were sent in, they would function in the public interest and be seen to do so. Deputy Bruton's proposal on the tabular statement is necessary because it is difficult for the rest of us to come to terms with this huge elephant in the room that is staring us in the face concerning Anglo Irish Bank. Depending on how one looks at the figures of Brian Lucey, in a recent article responding to the Minister, the figure seems closer to €32 billion or €33 billion than €60 billion or €62 billion. If it is a choice between supplying €4 billion or forgoing €33 billion, I am with the Minister.

More fundamental questions are raised and we do not know where we are going, what is the plan or the intention for the future. We will be stuck with the effect of these decisions for between 20 and 30 years. A great number of Members are at sea in terms of the facts and being able to assess them. We should be in possession of the real information if we are to make these decisions.

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